I was just accepted to a group I was recommended to join because it pertains to my chosen genre only to find it says ‘No bisexuality’ in the group rules.
I’m bisexual and obviously find that hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner? It seriously puts a damper on my being here knowing my genre doesn’t want people or content like this when it quite literally already states that any sexual content on this site must be private anyway so it really isn’t their business? I’m somewhat regretting putting my own money into this site given this development. No one should join a group and find their sexuality considered against the rules.
I’m bisexual and obviously find that hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner? It seriously puts a damper on my being here knowing my genre doesn’t want people or content like this when it quite literally already states that any sexual content on this site must be private anyway so it really isn’t their business? I’m somewhat regretting putting my own money into this site given this development. No one should join a group and find their sexuality considered against the rules.
The way that's set up, also can't really tell if homosexuality is also being forbidden or what... And they don't say whether it's about characters or what... So at minimum that needs to be cleared up.
Anyway, I'd suggest alerting the mods to the group so that things can be discussed. I know they've had to deal with some pretty messy group stuff before, but I'm not sure what the outcome was or if it would have any bearing on how this is dealt with. If it's just that the founder wants an area where romantic content is strictly heterosexual... I suspect the ruling may be in their favor, since RPR does try to give folks a lot of freedom and there's nothing preventing you from creating a similar (and maybe bigger, better!) group that isn't so biased.
Anyway, I'd suggest alerting the mods to the group so that things can be discussed. I know they've had to deal with some pretty messy group stuff before, but I'm not sure what the outcome was or if it would have any bearing on how this is dealt with. If it's just that the founder wants an area where romantic content is strictly heterosexual... I suspect the ruling may be in their favor, since RPR does try to give folks a lot of freedom and there's nothing preventing you from creating a similar (and maybe bigger, better!) group that isn't so biased.
Novalyyn wrote:
The way that's set up, also can't really tell if homosexuality is also being forbidden or what... And they don't say whether it's about characters or what... So at minimum that needs to be cleared up.
Anyway, I'd suggest alerting the mods to the group so that things can be discussed. I know they've had to deal with some pretty messy group stuff before, but I'm not sure what the outcome was or if it would have any bearing on how this is dealt with. If it's just that the founder wants an area where romantic content is strictly heterosexual... I suspect the ruling may be in their favor, since RPR does try to give folks a lot of freedom and there's nothing preventing you from creating a similar (and maybe bigger, better!) group that isn't so biased.
Anyway, I'd suggest alerting the mods to the group so that things can be discussed. I know they've had to deal with some pretty messy group stuff before, but I'm not sure what the outcome was or if it would have any bearing on how this is dealt with. If it's just that the founder wants an area where romantic content is strictly heterosexual... I suspect the ruling may be in their favor, since RPR does try to give folks a lot of freedom and there's nothing preventing you from creating a similar (and maybe bigger, better!) group that isn't so biased.
That’s a good idea. I just wish I’d known this was how the few LOTR members on this site felt about non heterosexual relationships before I’d gotten invested. If I wanted to be excluded from society I’d go try to join a church.
I understand your frustration with being confronted by sexuality denial in a group that features a fandom you like. It makes me uncomfortable too, but like Nova I'm not sure where the boundaries lie between setting up a specific group that is looking for specific things, and bigotry/intolerance. The mods can help figure this out.
However, this group is probably only one small part of a huge community of roleplayers who feel this way. RPR and its moderators are all known to actively oppose bigotry and homophobia, and these few members don't reflect the community or the site as a whole.
However, this group is probably only one small part of a huge community of roleplayers who feel this way. RPR and its moderators are all known to actively oppose bigotry and homophobia, and these few members don't reflect the community or the site as a whole.
Sanne wrote:
I understand your frustration with being confronted by sexuality denial in a group that features a fandom you like. It makes me uncomfortable too, but like Nova I'm not sure where the boundaries lie between setting up a specific group that is looking for specific things, and bigotry/intolerance. The mods can help figure this out.
However, this group is probably only one small part of a huge community of roleplayers who feel this way. RPR and its moderators are all known to actively oppose bigotry and homophobia, and these few members don't reflect the community or the site as a whole.
However, this group is probably only one small part of a huge community of roleplayers who feel this way. RPR and its moderators are all known to actively oppose bigotry and homophobia, and these few members don't reflect the community or the site as a whole.
Thank you Sanne, and thanks to Nova as well. I’ve sent a message to our admin regarding clarification. I like Nova’s idea to possibly start a more open group. I’m going to think very seriously about that and choose to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt on this. Thank you for both giving me insight.
Hmm.. as a Tolkien/Middle Earth geek, I was actually in that group, but after nothing ever happening there, I left it. I also left a site that had similar rules, along with a rule that said that 'No Religion' could be discussed or promoted (except evangelical christianity. that seemed to be ok, and when I said somethign about it, I was told I was 'ppersecuting christians'). Anyway, It is sad to see such things blatantly put out there in rules. ((HUGS Selkieborn))
Personal choices aside...
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
Tusitala2017 wrote:
Personal choices aside...
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
That’s not okay dude. I made it clear in my post that none of my sexual activity was public in the first place so insinuating that I’m forcing them to accept that is just plain false. Secondly, I have never in my life asked a straight person to stop existing near me as a straight person EVER. Third, at no point was I trying to get with this person in a sexual or romantic manner so your insinuation that I was somehow demanding such just by being in the group is just plain not okay. Like, where did that even come from?
I’m not trying to get with someone just because I’m bisexual and happen to be in their genre. At no point have I said their being straight was even the problem? Quite frankly, being accused of intolerance because someone accepted me to a group that clearly excluded my sexual orientation is just grade A projection dude.
I’m confused as to how you read my post and decided I needed to be taught a lesson about tolerance? Moving on was what I had already clearly decided to do, your post was just not helpful at all and quite accusatory in tone. Why on earth would you pick the approach of making me feel bad for Seeking clarity on a situation that is pretty blatant in its discrimination?
Tusitala2017 wrote:
Hidden due to post length
Personal choices aside...
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
It is time to post that this RP site is entirely about respect and freedom for all players and characters equally (including LGBT and straight members alike)
LGBT players/characters have to understand, accept and respect that there are group of straight players / characters who do not like/share your views nor feel comfortable with your choices in sexual matters (nor do they have to) as much as you don't feel comfortable nor have to accept theirs
Being strictly straight is not a personal attack upon anyone, it is not narrow-mindedness nor bigotry, it is a choice some people/characters have made (as equally valid as the opposite) that deserves the same level of respect and tolerance from both sides, so efforts should be made to stop name calling either side and stop taking offence where there is none.
It happens in real life too (some people will support your views and others will oppose it), and nobody is superior nor lesser over it, just like nobody has to change to accommodate others' preferences.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
If you were to make a group of strictly LGBT views, straight players/characters would feel equally offended and excluded since their choice clashes with yours.
Mods would not and should not force you to accept them, and vice versa, since we all have a right to enjoy ourselves and our preferences/tastes within the groups that are player created.
Fortunately, when it comes to groups, rules can be read before you join and you can also leave at any time if you dislike it and carry on.
Neither side represents RPR site as a whole nor is there a competition/power struggle between either side and none should impose themselves over to the other.
RPR is made of such huge community of over 10k players that everyone can find like minded players/characters/groups on this site for a jolly good role-playing time, according to their views (religious, political, sexual...) without stepping on each others toes.
Running a group can be hard work but it is rewarding too and you can set your boundaries and rules and preferences as you choose for others to freely join in or skip.
We are all here to have a creative, adventurous, enjoyable time, each according to their own choices and comfort zone under the principle of tolerance (live and let live)
Best of luck finding or creating an alternative group of players/characters that meets your taste/criteria
Disclaimer: I've no idea what the intention of this group's rules are, so I'm in no position to say where this group falls.
I think what's important to understand is that there is a difference between having group rules laid out because it's an RP preference, and having group rules laid out because it's more about bigotry and homophobia than RP preferences. If a group doesn't accept gay people for example, that's different than having a group and/or story where you don't wish to involve homosexual themes, and therefore no homosexual characters. One's bigotry and homophobic, the other is a preference.
The question that is being presented here is, which category does this group fall into? Because I think we can agree that denying a user access to your group based purely on their sexuality is discrimination and should not be tolerated.
CW for the next paragraph: sexual assault, violence and death towards LGBTQIA+
As for LGBTQIA+ exclusive spaces, the reason they are needed is not because of community bigotry towards straight people. LGBTQIA+ people still experience violence, rape and death at the hand of trans- and homophobic individuals every single day. They need a safe place to find comfort with another because straight people are literally killing them. The people they're not letting in are the people who hurt them, and they don't know the difference between a good straight person or a bad straight person because you can't tell from the outside.
Straight people are in no way, shape or form prosecuted or murdered for being straight, or forced to be non-straight, so the only reason they would have any interest in not having LGBTQIA+ individuals around is because of bigotry.
I respect people enough to not ever question their desire to only RP straight couples, romances and adult scenes alike. This is a preference they're entitled to have, as much as I'm entitled to prefer only RPing lesbians if that's my thing. But a refusal to accept people into a group purely because they're not straight is not a preference, it's discrimination. I don't know how mods handle this right now, if at all, but I personally think that it's a really big issue if people get to actively practice discrimination in groups with no on-site consequences.
Just because a group has the ability to enforce their own rules and restrict their creative space, it does not mean they get to toe the line around or actively practice discrimination. I think it's good to not conflate preferences with actual discrimination, and focus on how to recognize the differences between the two instead.
The open question on a public help forum of "I'm bisexual. The rules of the group I joined exclude this. I find it hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner?" is the reason why I replied with my post.
Rather than an attack on anyone in particular (nor trying to make anyone feel bad in any way), my response is putting perspective (and distance from personal choice) by providing a reminder that there are people/characters with many different views on this site who are allowed and entitled to have groups according to their chosen preferences and to enjoy themselves within their set comfort zone. That is one of the freedoms that having a group provides.
Yes, group owners are allowed to exclude alternative choices from the RPs taking place within their group and this should not be taken as discrimination nor cause for criticism nor reason to take offense or hurt, rather be seen as a valid option among many others within the wider community
Groups do not define RPR as a whole (hence they should not be seen as a damper on RPR experience) nor do they define any particular genre.
@Selkie If you need help setting a new group, I will be more than happy to help. I have assisted many other players before and I'm always willing to lend a hand
Rather than an attack on anyone in particular (nor trying to make anyone feel bad in any way), my response is putting perspective (and distance from personal choice) by providing a reminder that there are people/characters with many different views on this site who are allowed and entitled to have groups according to their chosen preferences and to enjoy themselves within their set comfort zone. That is one of the freedoms that having a group provides.
Yes, group owners are allowed to exclude alternative choices from the RPs taking place within their group and this should not be taken as discrimination nor cause for criticism nor reason to take offense or hurt, rather be seen as a valid option among many others within the wider community
Groups do not define RPR as a whole (hence they should not be seen as a damper on RPR experience) nor do they define any particular genre.
@Selkie If you need help setting a new group, I will be more than happy to help. I have assisted many other players before and I'm always willing to lend a hand
Tusitala2017 wrote:
The open question on a public help forum of "I'm bisexual. The rules of the group I joined exclude this. I find it hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner?" is the reason why I replied with my post.
Rather than an attack on anyone in particular (nor trying to make anyone feel bad in any way), my response is putting perspective (and distance from personal choice) by providing a reminder that there are people/characters with many different views on this site who are allowed and entitled to have groups according to their chosen preferences and to enjoy themselves within their set comfort zone. That is one of the freedoms that having a group provides.
Yes, group owners are allowed to exclude alternative choices from the RPs taking place within their group and this should not be taken as discrimination nor cause for criticism nor reason to take offense or hurt, rather be seen as a valid option among many others within the wider community
Groups do not define RPR as a whole (hence they should not be seen as a damper on RPR experience) nor do they define any particular genre.
@Selkie If you need help setting a new group, I will be more than happy to help. I have assisted many other players before and I'm always willing to lend a hand
Rather than an attack on anyone in particular (nor trying to make anyone feel bad in any way), my response is putting perspective (and distance from personal choice) by providing a reminder that there are people/characters with many different views on this site who are allowed and entitled to have groups according to their chosen preferences and to enjoy themselves within their set comfort zone. That is one of the freedoms that having a group provides.
Yes, group owners are allowed to exclude alternative choices from the RPs taking place within their group and this should not be taken as discrimination nor cause for criticism nor reason to take offense or hurt, rather be seen as a valid option among many others within the wider community
Groups do not define RPR as a whole (hence they should not be seen as a damper on RPR experience) nor do they define any particular genre.
@Selkie If you need help setting a new group, I will be more than happy to help. I have assisted many other players before and I'm always willing to lend a hand
Just to clarify, I didn’t choose to be bisexual. Second, I would have really appreciated your initial response being worded in this manner than in the way it was. I see what you’re saying, and I appreciate the clarification. But I really don’t appreciate being condescended to, nor does anyone else when asking for help with a question.
@Tusitala2017: I struggled a bit with your post initially. Some parts of it read as if you're saying a person's sexuality is a choice. It is for characters, but it's not for players. I didn't choose to be pansexual, and my sexuality has no bearing on my roleplay abilities. I will happily RP only straight relationships with people if they prefer that and understand I won't be able to get into a group if I don't have a suitable character for their requirements, but it's absolutely not okay if I'm rejected from a group for not being straight outside of roleplaying. Your post is difficult to interpret because parts of it sound like you believe it's okay for people to reject us, the players, over our sexuality because you believe it's a choice we can undo and that makes discrimination okay. If I read it incorrectly, please do let me know!
Selkieborn wrote:
I was just accepted to a group I was recommended to join because it pertains to my chosen genre only to find it says ‘No bisexuality’ in the group rules.
I’m bisexual and obviously find that hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner? It seriously puts a damper on my being here knowing my genre doesn’t want people or content like this when it quite literally already states that any sexual content on this site must be private anyway so it really isn’t their business? I’m somewhat regretting putting my own money into this site given this development. No one should join a group and find their sexuality considered against the rules.
I’m bisexual and obviously find that hurtful. Are group owners allowed to be discriminatory in this manner? It seriously puts a damper on my being here knowing my genre doesn’t want people or content like this when it quite literally already states that any sexual content on this site must be private anyway so it really isn’t their business? I’m somewhat regretting putting my own money into this site given this development. No one should join a group and find their sexuality considered against the rules.
I just want to show support. I don't know what they meant in that group, whether they're talking about players or characters, but in my opinion the group ought to clarify that they're talking about characters, if they're talking about characters cause it could come off like they're talking about players.
But I personally as a whole have found RpR, including the LOTR fans that I know on here (I don't know the fandom well enough to RP in it, unfortunately, because it's super awesome) to be very welcoming toward me. I've never encountered any discrimination here. Maybe there are just a few bad seeds, or maybe they meant characters not players, because that would make so much more sense. I can't imagine them meaning players, truly. That would just be abhorrent. Anyway I like you selkie so stick around! Trust me this site is not like that.
This is a wall of text about how I feel about this, it is collapsed due to length.
**This is all my personal opinions on the matter.**
Personally I do not think this is okay. Whether it's about bisexual/gay/lesbian players and/or characters.
I do not think it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters in an RP group. It espeically doesn't make any sense in a LOTR's group that doesn't appear to be strictly romantic. What does your character's sexuality have to do with anything?
If you are just going to be RPing a character having an adventure and fun, why does it matter if characters are not heterosexual?
This is really upsetting to me too honestly as a bisexual person myself. I've never seen anything like this on this website before. I suppose I could understand it if it was a group dedicated specifically to romance and the person is mainly interested in m/f couples; but even then bisexual characters should be allowed.
With the group you mentioned specifically, which appears to be a group for just playing LOTR characters and themes in the world, it makes even less sense that bisexual/gay character aren't allowed. Being 'uncomfortable' with lgbtq characters even if they aren't partaking in romance stems directly from homophobia and biphobia.
Honestly if m/f relationships are allowed in the group that isn't strictly romantic and is about other things too, then why aren't f/f and m/m relationships allowed if the group isn't strictly about m/f romance? If all romance isn't allowed in a group between characters as long as it's not forced onto characters and players, then m/f romance should not be allowed in the group either.
I 100% cannot support the idea that not allowing gay/bisexual characters into a group (and not allowing all romances between characters in a very open world group if m/f romance is allowed between characters) is an acceptable preference, because if this were about not accepting people of color, then no one would be debating this. If that groups rules said 'no blacks' or 'no people of color' it would very clearly be a huge issue.
So why is 'no bisexuality' not a huge issue? Sexuality and race are both things we are both with and do not chose.
Sexuality is not a 'choice' for either side for real people, and for many of us not even for our characters.
Yes we build our characters and chose their traits, but my characters in my head and my heart aren't bisexual straight/ gay because I just chose to give them that sexuality. They are in their own verse whatever sexuality they are because they were born that way. I can't change my own, and I can't just change my characters sexuality either - because even if I changed the word to a different sexuality it would mean nothing except a lie on their profile. They'd still feel and be bisexual/straight/gay because they were born into a character, with that sexuality.
Secondly; views that oppress and exclude minority people are wrong; and should not be accepted, nor respected.
I really hope the mods figure this out and don't think that it's 'acceptable' because honestly... It'd change my opinion quite a bit on RPR if this is allowed. I love this place and respect everyone but this just doesn't make any sense.
If you're playing a straight character, sure, then you wouldn't want a gay relaitonship, I totally respect that. I respect people who only want to do m/f relationships, but why does everyone in the group have to adhere to that? In my opinion, it's on longer just a personal preference at that point.
I'm sorry you're upset, I am too. I just made a post about bi visibility that you were so lovely with commenting, as were several other people. It hurts to see stuff like this.
Having a preference to not allow bisexual/gay people or characters is just as bad as a preference to not allow people or characters of color.
Accepting how people feel and just dealing with them being biphobic because everyone has different opinions, is not how it should work. Yes people are going to have different opinions, but homophobia and biphobia aren't opinions that are acceptable; and we have worked so hard and are still working hard to make it clear that those 'opinions' won't be tolerated in the world.
Racism is unacceptable on RRP. This should be too.
**This is all my personal opinions on the matter.**
Personally I do not think this is okay. Whether it's about bisexual/gay/lesbian players and/or characters.
I do not think it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters in an RP group. It espeically doesn't make any sense in a LOTR's group that doesn't appear to be strictly romantic. What does your character's sexuality have to do with anything?
If you are just going to be RPing a character having an adventure and fun, why does it matter if characters are not heterosexual?
This is really upsetting to me too honestly as a bisexual person myself. I've never seen anything like this on this website before. I suppose I could understand it if it was a group dedicated specifically to romance and the person is mainly interested in m/f couples; but even then bisexual characters should be allowed.
With the group you mentioned specifically, which appears to be a group for just playing LOTR characters and themes in the world, it makes even less sense that bisexual/gay character aren't allowed. Being 'uncomfortable' with lgbtq characters even if they aren't partaking in romance stems directly from homophobia and biphobia.
Honestly if m/f relationships are allowed in the group that isn't strictly romantic and is about other things too, then why aren't f/f and m/m relationships allowed if the group isn't strictly about m/f romance? If all romance isn't allowed in a group between characters as long as it's not forced onto characters and players, then m/f romance should not be allowed in the group either.
I 100% cannot support the idea that not allowing gay/bisexual characters into a group (and not allowing all romances between characters in a very open world group if m/f romance is allowed between characters) is an acceptable preference, because if this were about not accepting people of color, then no one would be debating this. If that groups rules said 'no blacks' or 'no people of color' it would very clearly be a huge issue.
So why is 'no bisexuality' not a huge issue? Sexuality and race are both things we are both with and do not chose.
Tusitala2017 wrote:
Personal choices aside...
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
There should be no offence taken in finding someone different to your views so long as there is politeness in communication aka so long they don't insult or pick on you personally over your choice.
Sexuality is not a 'choice' for either side for real people, and for many of us not even for our characters.
Yes we build our characters and chose their traits, but my characters in my head and my heart aren't bisexual straight/ gay because I just chose to give them that sexuality. They are in their own verse whatever sexuality they are because they were born that way. I can't change my own, and I can't just change my characters sexuality either - because even if I changed the word to a different sexuality it would mean nothing except a lie on their profile. They'd still feel and be bisexual/straight/gay because they were born into a character, with that sexuality.
Secondly; views that oppress and exclude minority people are wrong; and should not be accepted, nor respected.
I really hope the mods figure this out and don't think that it's 'acceptable' because honestly... It'd change my opinion quite a bit on RPR if this is allowed. I love this place and respect everyone but this just doesn't make any sense.
If you're playing a straight character, sure, then you wouldn't want a gay relaitonship, I totally respect that. I respect people who only want to do m/f relationships, but why does everyone in the group have to adhere to that? In my opinion, it's on longer just a personal preference at that point.
I'm sorry you're upset, I am too. I just made a post about bi visibility that you were so lovely with commenting, as were several other people. It hurts to see stuff like this.
Having a preference to not allow bisexual/gay people or characters is just as bad as a preference to not allow people or characters of color.
Accepting how people feel and just dealing with them being biphobic because everyone has different opinions, is not how it should work. Yes people are going to have different opinions, but homophobia and biphobia aren't opinions that are acceptable; and we have worked so hard and are still working hard to make it clear that those 'opinions' won't be tolerated in the world.
Racism is unacceptable on RRP. This should be too.
When it comes down to it, I don't want my opinion to directly sway anyone in their decision of what to do about this, and I will not hate on or disrespect anyone for the decision on this they make; I just felt like putting in my two cents, and I hope this gets resolved.
damnationfromafar wrote:
Personally I do not think this is okay. Whether it's about bisexual/gay/lesbian players or characters.
I do not think it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters in an RP group. It espeically doesn't make any sense in a LOTR's group that doesn't appear to be strictly romantic. What does your character's sexuality have anything to do with anything?
If you are just going to be RPing a character having an adventure and fun, why does it matter if characters are not heterosexual?
This is really upsetting to me too honestly as a bisexual person myself. I've never seen anything like this on this website and I do not believe it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters from RPing in a group. I suppose I could understand it if it was a group dedicated specifically to romance and the person is mainly interested in m/f couples; but even then bisexual characters should be allowed.
With the group you mentioned specifically, which appears to be a group for just playing LOTR characters and themes in the world, it makes even less sense that bisexual/gay character aren't allowed. Being 'uncomfortable' with lgbtq characters even if they aren't partaking in romance stems directly from homophobia and biphobia.
Honestly if m/f relationships are allowed in the group that isn't strictly romantic and is about other things too, then why aren't f/f and m/m relationships allowed if the group isn't strictly about m/f romance? If all romance isn't allowed in a group between characters and not forced onto characters, then m/f romance should not be allowed in the group either.
I 100% cannot support the idea that not allowing gay/bisexual characters is an acceptable preference, because if this were about not accepting people of color, then no one would be debating this. If that groups rules said 'no blacks' or 'no people of color' it would very clearly be a huge issue.
So why is 'no bisexuals' not a huge issue? Sexuality and race are both things we are both with and do not chose.
I really hope the mods figure this out and don't think that it's 'acceptable' because honestly... It'd change my opinion quite a bit on RPR if this is allowed.
I'm sorry you're upset, I am too. I just made a post about bi visibility that you were so lovely with commenting, as were several other people. It hurts to see stuff like this.
Having a preference to not allow bisexual/gay people or characters is just as bad as a preference to not allow people or characters of color.
Accepting how people feel and just dealing with them being biphobic because everyone has different opinions, is not how it should work. Yes people are going to have different opinions, but homophobia and biphobia aren't opinions that are acceptable; and we have worked so hard and are still working hard to make it clear that those 'opinions' won't be tolerated in the world.
Racism is unacceptable on RRP. This should be too.
I do not think it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters in an RP group. It espeically doesn't make any sense in a LOTR's group that doesn't appear to be strictly romantic. What does your character's sexuality have anything to do with anything?
If you are just going to be RPing a character having an adventure and fun, why does it matter if characters are not heterosexual?
This is really upsetting to me too honestly as a bisexual person myself. I've never seen anything like this on this website and I do not believe it should be allowed to exclude bisexual/gay characters from RPing in a group. I suppose I could understand it if it was a group dedicated specifically to romance and the person is mainly interested in m/f couples; but even then bisexual characters should be allowed.
With the group you mentioned specifically, which appears to be a group for just playing LOTR characters and themes in the world, it makes even less sense that bisexual/gay character aren't allowed. Being 'uncomfortable' with lgbtq characters even if they aren't partaking in romance stems directly from homophobia and biphobia.
Honestly if m/f relationships are allowed in the group that isn't strictly romantic and is about other things too, then why aren't f/f and m/m relationships allowed if the group isn't strictly about m/f romance? If all romance isn't allowed in a group between characters and not forced onto characters, then m/f romance should not be allowed in the group either.
I 100% cannot support the idea that not allowing gay/bisexual characters is an acceptable preference, because if this were about not accepting people of color, then no one would be debating this. If that groups rules said 'no blacks' or 'no people of color' it would very clearly be a huge issue.
So why is 'no bisexuals' not a huge issue? Sexuality and race are both things we are both with and do not chose.
I really hope the mods figure this out and don't think that it's 'acceptable' because honestly... It'd change my opinion quite a bit on RPR if this is allowed.
I'm sorry you're upset, I am too. I just made a post about bi visibility that you were so lovely with commenting, as were several other people. It hurts to see stuff like this.
Having a preference to not allow bisexual/gay people or characters is just as bad as a preference to not allow people or characters of color.
Accepting how people feel and just dealing with them being biphobic because everyone has different opinions, is not how it should work. Yes people are going to have different opinions, but homophobia and biphobia aren't opinions that are acceptable; and we have worked so hard and are still working hard to make it clear that those 'opinions' won't be tolerated in the world.
Racism is unacceptable on RRP. This should be too.
Every last bit of what you said, I agree with. But I was obviously overruled and told I was taking offense where I shouldn’t. Honestly I don’t feel heard or respected. I feel like my being bisexual is seen as both a choice and something entirely up for debate on whether or not it has a right to exist. But at this point I’m very sure saying so is only viewed as overreacting or being somehow intolerant toward straight people. So this no longer feels like an open accepting place. Because for some reason, discrimination only counts if it’s a straight person being discriminated against...which in this case didn’t apply. It was the other way around.
I’m still contemplating staying or not which is purely on me. I appreciate the solidarity and support but at this point I’m afraid it’ll just be misinterpreted as drama.
I guess I'm sad because the group in question's founder has done nothing with its creation and it is a hollow shell. I was invited to it and joined while in an RP with its founder, but nothing was happening in the group and I didn't like this rule for one, and I removed myself after the founder bailed out on an RP I was writing with them. It didn't fill me with any hope this group would amount to much. Sadly, it's this BS rule of the group does nothing but cause grief in the LotR name, and this thread will likely be the most activity this group will ever generate.
I really hope you don't go Selkie. It will be a lesser place without you.
I really hope you don't go Selkie. It will be a lesser place without you.
Hey guys, I am going to lock this thread for a little while because I don't want things to heat up anymore until the mod team weighs in. We are currently too busy to sit down and draft a long response, but we will within a couple hours. 
My short response is that we don't tolerate bigotry here on RPR. If the group's rule is meant to exclude bisexual players, that is not okay.
My short response is that we don't tolerate bigotry here on RPR. If the group's rule is meant to exclude bisexual players, that is not okay.
Okay, thanks for your patience! Here's my longer take on this issue.
Some of the confusion is coming from whether this rule applies to bisexual players or bisexual characters. Restricting membership to exclude bisexual players isn't something we permit in any way, shape, or form, and I'll be sending a message to the creator of the group to clarify their intention. Please keep in mind that groups are run and moderated entirely by members, and as such, we generally only find out about things like this via reports. There is some talk in this thread that seems to imply that the mod team is biphobic, that we don't take discrimination seriously, and that the rules of this group reflect the rules of RPR, but I can assure you that this isn't the case.
When it comes to bisexual characters, things get more complicated. Intention matters a lot. We try to give RPers leeway when they run groups and propose ideas, and there are some situations wherein I can imagine that bisexuality would be limited ICly. For example, if the group focuses on a puritanical setting where anyone LGBTQ must be closeted, or the setting only features a species who can't be bisexual for some reason. Again, intention matters here--if anyone ever encounters a rule like this in someone's group and feels that there might be ulterior motives for it, just report it and we will look into it.
Tusitala, calling someone's sexual orientation a choice is very disrespectful. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the language barrier, but I wanted to make you aware of this. Nobody chooses their sexual orientation!
Selkieborn, I hope this post assuages some of your concerns. It would be disappointing to see you leave, but I respect your decision if that's what you decide to do.
I hope this has covered everything it needs to cover. The thread is unlocked now, so if you have any further questions or comments on the matter, feel free to voice them.
Some of the confusion is coming from whether this rule applies to bisexual players or bisexual characters. Restricting membership to exclude bisexual players isn't something we permit in any way, shape, or form, and I'll be sending a message to the creator of the group to clarify their intention. Please keep in mind that groups are run and moderated entirely by members, and as such, we generally only find out about things like this via reports. There is some talk in this thread that seems to imply that the mod team is biphobic, that we don't take discrimination seriously, and that the rules of this group reflect the rules of RPR, but I can assure you that this isn't the case.
When it comes to bisexual characters, things get more complicated. Intention matters a lot. We try to give RPers leeway when they run groups and propose ideas, and there are some situations wherein I can imagine that bisexuality would be limited ICly. For example, if the group focuses on a puritanical setting where anyone LGBTQ must be closeted, or the setting only features a species who can't be bisexual for some reason. Again, intention matters here--if anyone ever encounters a rule like this in someone's group and feels that there might be ulterior motives for it, just report it and we will look into it.
Tusitala, calling someone's sexual orientation a choice is very disrespectful. I'm not sure if this is an issue with the language barrier, but I wanted to make you aware of this. Nobody chooses their sexual orientation!
Selkieborn, I hope this post assuages some of your concerns. It would be disappointing to see you leave, but I respect your decision if that's what you decide to do.
I hope this has covered everything it needs to cover. The thread is unlocked now, so if you have any further questions or comments on the matter, feel free to voice them.
Thanks for the clarification, Heimdall!
Heimdall wrote:
Okay, thanks for your patience! Here's my longer take on this issue.
Thank you for taking the time to clear that up, I really appreciate it.
My concern is that IC in the Tolkien universe, anything other than heterosexuality wasn't ever mentioned at all- being that at the time any of Tolkien's writings were published, anything other than heterosexuality was considered to be homosexuality and against the law in the UK(until 1967) so he wouldn't have been able to get his stories published at all if he'd included it. He was in fact a great fan of gay literature and spoke repeatedly about it(one can google Mary Renault and Tolkien to find one instance as evidence of that claim). That being said, it's clear that homosexuality can't be argued as not being a canon setting. It's quite literally left to the reader's interpretation to decide because Tolkien left it out.
I left the group and don't intend to participate in it. My main reason for saying anything at all was a concern on whether or not this was a site wide occurrence. Thank you for your reassurances that it's not and for getting back to me as soon as you were able, I know you're busy.(BTW your leatherwork is INCREDIBLE!)
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