The focus of our chat today is on running a RP group. With the expansion of our groups system, many people are becoming first time group admins, so this is the perfect time to chat about how to best do this critically important role.
Many of the people in here have many years of experience running groups, so feel free to ask them questions. However, even if you haven't run a group, you have probably BEEN in a few and seen it done well and seen it done poorly. Feel free to add your thoughts based on those sorts of experiences, too. We have a TON of prompts to cover today, so we may not get to everything, but we're going to do our best to stay on topic and moving at a clip.
PenGryphon2007: Heya Loki
whoa, 16 people in here today!Kim: And by the way: If you're having trouble keeping up, try maximizing the chat window, and turning off "pretty formatting" in the settings to get more on the screen.
Loki: Ah, I had forgotten about that tip, thanks Kim
fallensiner:
well im out on this one, i havent been in a group or lead oneKim: Let's start off simple:
There are lots of groups out there. Why would you create one instead of joining one?
Rubix: *flops in*
Olthain: I lead two groups at the moment
Wizard: Sometimes you just can't find exactly what you're searching for. (;
Dylan: You might have a specific idea in mind of something you'd like to see happen. Maybe there isn't a niche for that style of group and roleplay. Maybe there are a lot of fantasy groups but no modern ones, or vice versa!
Earendill: Because sometimes in order to get just what you want, you have to do it yourself! That or you might have some brilliant new idea to blow everyone off their socks.
Ben: Creative control is always nice.
Heimdall: I tend to want to create groups when I have a specific mood/feel in mind and there isn't currently anywhere where I can satisfy that. I also do it because I love the sort of "Advanced storytelling" it required. Well, DID it. I don't run any groups currently.
Loki: what everyone else said
Nuclear_Dingoz: I'm here, a bit late.. and can't stay long
Rynh: I'd only really create a group if something I'm looking for isn't to be found, and might possibly get people interested in.
Nero: When I choose to make a group, it can have a couple motivations behind it. The most common are a new idea, one that just isn't covered by an existing group, and the other is to have control over who joins.
fallensiner: oh here we go i can talk with this one. well i never personally created a group. Depending on the groups out there those groups might no have a specific idea or mindset. They might have it in a certain area, or in gereal as Rynh said that something unintresting in a group. Or with the present groups out there it might be too boring.
Loki: Even if there are a lot of fantasy groups, you might have a specific idea in mind, so you might want to make up your own group to cover that idea
Sanne: I mainly create my own groups for private RPs. The PM system isn't to my liking for roleplaying yet.
StarArmy: Hi! I'm Wes Davis, I've been running an RP group called Star Army that I found in 2003. We currently have over 20 RP groups running on our forums, which all inhabit the same shared fictional universe. I created the Star Army RP community as kind of an outwardly spiraling creative process. First I started by creating a roleplaying character and as I developed her, I ended up creating the company that genetically engineered her...then people wanted to play with me in my company and then the company's universe grew into a nation with a space military (the Star Army) and people wanted to play in that and eventually it grew into a whole universe. I guess when I started I didn't realize how big it would get but I'm glad it did.
Loki: That too Sanne!
StarArmy: founded^
PenGryphon2007: Yep, those would be my reasons too for starting a group RP!
Rubix:
Same here.Kim: Wow Star!
These are all great reasons. I'm seeing a ton of agreement, and a lot of ideas that we're going to try to cover in great depth down the line, so let's forge on ahead!
It's a big responsibility and a lot of work to run a RP group. What should you consider before trying your hand at the role? Is there a way to know when you are ready?
fallensiner: eh as with Sanne's words, you might want to do a private group rp with a certain group of people. OF course some of the groups out there I have seen are not to my liking. Some have sparked my intrest but the idea of joining a group does seem intresting.
Olthain: Groups are also very useful to contain an entire universe, be it one of your own or a fab-based Roleplay. It can contain one main storyline divided over several topics, or it could be a main topic and some side stories... Or just a great collection of stories in one large world! (referring to my group RP kingdoms, and Rosecrest of Thelily and Strangdisease)
Ben: Free time. You're going to need a lot of it. Thick skin - can you deal with heated issues without getting emotionally involved? Professional detatchment is very important.
Earendill: First thing to consider is: ARE YOU READY? Make sure you have enough time, and a proper motivation to keep going when things don't go as planned.
fallensiner: eh as the new topic went ahead, well before joining a group you should look to see if your character is fit for the role. Trhough rps and what not. It depends on the character as well. Say for a fantasy group you might want to make sure you work out the kinks of your character and be able to follow your character strictly. And in the same time get to know your group mates.
Rynh: Consider that people are counting on you as the creator of the group. If the creator of the group starts slacking on his job, people will start to get frustrated. It takes your time to lead over a group!
Wizard: A group leader is not just in it for the fun, he or she is also tasked with the very important responsibility of keeping things in order--and this has to be understood prior, because this can and very often does cut INTO your fun. If you are running a public group, especially, it's extremely important to understand this and prepare accordingly. You're serving your group's interests, not the other way around.
PenGryphon2007: Realize that if disputes happen, you're going to have to take charge and figure out how to resolve them. Also, I'd say that being "ready" is a matter of...maturity.
Dylan: First off! You need an idea of what you want to do. As soon as you have that in mind you can start crafting that idea. Get the essentials down and have a rough idea of what you'd like to do. If you have big ambitions you really don't want to go at it alone. You want to find people (not necessarily friends) who have similar ideas and interests to help you create your group. It's a big undertaking to do a group, even if its a small one for only a few RPers or a larger one for multiple people and multiple plots. You need help! Its hard to go at it alone.
Ben: Yes, get help is a good starting point. You need an administrative and creative team.
Heimdall: I am going to play devil's advocate. I say just GO FOR IT. Just go nuts, make mistakes. It's the best way to learn sometimes. I had no idea what to expect when I lead groups, I just jumped into it and fought to keep my head above water. The initial enthusiasm really helps.
Nero: There are lots of ways to think you're ready, but only one way to know for sure; try it. The most important thing to know before you get started is, what do you want from the group? Do you have a setting you want to explore, or a specific story? What kind of characters do you want to explore this setting/story with and do you need a system to support the story? Many stories don't require a system, but some might, and some groups of players will prefer one or prefer not to have one. Know your audience.
Kim: I'm seeing a lot of answers about needing enough time. How much of a time investment would you say you're going to have to make in running your group? Does it go down as you finish writing the initial information, or does it go up as people join?
PenGryphon2007: ^ I did that Heimdall...and it flopped--mostly cuz I didn't have the time for it.
Kaji: You need to consider, too, that part of being leader does mean sacrificing some of the fun. Instead of just being able to play within the rules as they are, you have to be prepared to weigh compromises, settle disputes, and put in the time needed to keep things running. The only way to know you're ready is to try and fail.
Loki: I agree Heimdall, you can't really know what to expect unless you try it for yourself. Of course, this means you might have some failed groups, but you can learn from that too
fallensiner: that is true with what the others have said. You have to come to terms to put the wants and the desires of the group mates first. And you have to have a good creative team like ben as said. OF course sometimes winging it ggoes a long way, but at the same time you have to make sure you keep things intresint or things die. and keeping with the rules and kaji said
Degu: I think you should consider that it will not be as simple as making a setting because you want to enjoy it. Some enjoyment may be taken away by how much you need to supervise your group. Not everyone will come into your group willing to follow the setting or the rules and you'll need to be prepared for trouble makers. It may not happen all the time, but it will happen. Sometimes you don't go into running a group prepared, and you grow into it. It's easy to become disillusioned if you go into running a group unprepared, but sometimes experience is what you need. It's what i needed.
Kaji: It goes up as more people join. More people need more attention.
StarArmy: Running a roleplaying site has been a huge workload. You will need incredible skills at managing people, running a roleplay, a significant amount of web design, coding, and hosting knowledge, and an endless enthusiasm and commitment. The post important part is that YOU ARE NEVER FINISHED with the RP and you have to keep going because at some point you will have people who are depending on you. Having run a site for ten years it is very much a huge part of my life and it's not always easy. I've been hacked, cussed out, been in legal battles, had to deal with suicidal members, and failed out of college because people get so caught up in the RP.
Loki: A lot of time, I don't know if I could measure it in hours but it does take a lot of time. I think it goes up after people start to join
Ben: You can delegate a lot of things if you have good people helping you. But as your group grows, so will the time investment needed. You need to be able to follow it almost every day. Maybe not for HOURS every day, but you need to be checking in all the time.
Dylan: What type of group are you making? Thats really important. Are you creating a serious roleplaying group with a set continuity? If you have a specific time line/era and continuity, its crucial you have that information set before hand. You need to give your group members a loose guide so they know what to expect and what the group is all about. Labeling a group 'fantasy' but not saying what the fantasy roleplay is about can confuse people. They'll bring different things to the table that might not fit in your group.
Earendill: That really depends on the group at hand. When it's a d&d group, for example, you can have sessions once a week, twice a month, once a month, etc.
Heimdall: For a mature guild, after all the lore construction, etc. Prepare to spend a couple hours a week minimum answering questions, running events, looking over new player applications (if you have them), fixing up the site/forums/dream, and just hanging and RPing with the player base.
Kim: I see a lot of people talking about being prepared to set aside your own fun in order to facilitate the group and do the nitty gritty adminning that keeps the lights on. What motivates you to take on more responsibility and stress and, potentially, less fun? Where is the reward in that?
Dylan: This can be as little as a week of planning or as much as six months or a year-- it depends what you have in place of help or what your idea may be.
Loki: Seeing people really enjoy something you put so much work into Kim
StarArmy: I would say don't take starting a site lightly if you plan to have it around long term. If you just want to run RPs, hook up with a site like RP repository and make your RP group on there. Running a community site can start to get expensive too.
Wizard: The reward is seeing something you made flourish and come to life.
fallensiner: all those ideas are exactly good, you have to make sure it sticks with the central theme or lore, aside from keeping things moving. The aganozing weeks of planning can be pain of with a joyous rp idea. Of course the long term rps are the fun ones.
Kim: You guys, this is great. I know it is really busy in here, but these answers are already very valuable advice.
Earendill: I think you're someone who can answer that question yourself, Kim
Degu: What wizard said, it's your baby and your canvas!
Ben: The reward is watching your idea grow, watching people run with it, love it, and explore it. The other thing you should be prepared for is that it won't go to plan - the story will evolve on its own. And that, for me, is the fun.
Heimdall: I think I probably feel most satisfied when I run a big event and everyone is flipping out about the twists and turns, and just connecting with each other and my story on an emotional level.
Heimdall: (Spiral Tower, anyone?
)Wizard: (YES PLEASE)
Rynh: The reward is that you've created a community where people enjoy their interactions in. At least if you did it right.
Nero: All the long term Game Masters that I know(myself included) do not set aside their fun, instead we are all slightly mad in that we consider the time spent on supporting our games to /be/ fun.
Dylan: The reward is making a safe and awesome environment for others to play in. You do sacrifice 'fun' to some degree. You're facilitating this group, you're doing administrative duties which means you may not have the time to roleplay. But you get to watch people create and develop characters, you get to watch the community help develop your group, help add to it, and overall help it grow. Its wonderful to hear when people compliment you on a plot or a story line in your group.
Earendill: (SPIRAL TOWER OMG)
fallensiner: ((i have no clue what that is
))StarArmy: Keeping my site going is one of the things I've really been good at and I have made hundreds of friends through doing it. It's what keeps me alive socially.
Olthain: indeed. As Wizard said, and for certain as Kim herself will know, the greatest reward you can get as a group administrator is that of thankfulness from those who join, and to see that loads of players have fun with a variety of characters in them.
Loki: Likely an event Heimdall ran in their group Fallen
Heimdall: Yup, years ago but these folks still seem to like it
Earendill: Lets just say it involved rope and awesome.
StarArmy: My RP group is responsible for at least two marriages IIRC.
Heimdall: There is also a selfish pleasure when people interact with and care about my settings.
Dylan: Yeah, with those HUGE events the pay off is people coming to you and saying how awesome it is. And seeing characters change or new characters come out of the event or plot line.
Kim: As someone whose RP time has gone down to almost zero (as compared to many, many hours a week prior) since starting a RP site, I can speak from experience that you have to love the adminning itself. The building, watching people take their first steps in RP, watching experienced RPers take advantage of what you offer them and go directions you never expected. The work itself has to be fun or you just stop, because my goodness is it ever a ton of work.
Heimdall: Just, utterly selfish! I know it is! "Pay attention to meee!" But I love that feeling.
Kim: Congrats, StarArmy!
StarArmy: I agree with that Kim.
Earendill: All DMs secretly have that, Heimderp.
fallensiner: but yes a good reward is the awesome neviroment as Dylan has quoted. A fun rp group, theoretically speaking , has to have fun, structure, a well panned theme or plot to follow. And a way for newbies to be facilitated into the group without interrupting previous long term rp relationships. After all nothing is worse then when a newbie joins and it is like pulling teeth to try and get into the plot. ohf course when rp time goes away based on rl issues, always have someone that can help take over the work load as well.
Kim: And I love to see friendships and even romances blossom in RL out of the game.
Kaji: I can say along with Kim that yes, you have to be a bit of a born bureaucrat to tolerate the responsibilities of adminning for long.
Earendill: It's always fun when my d&d players start asking about the setting they're in outside of the actual sessions.
Olthain: *living example to what Kim just said*
Kim: I am glad that others see admin work as rewarding as I view it!
So you've got a great idea for your group. How fleshed out does that idea need to be? How much/what kinds of information about the setting should you provide to your players before you open for business? Why is establishing a setting important at all?
StarArmy: Another thing that might not be common in RPG communities but is a big thing in mine is we create and commission a ton of artwork and our RP over the years has resulted in a huge art collection I'm really proud of, with something like 7000 media files on our wiki now. I take a huge pride in that too.
Ben: This is the beauty of RP, you really only need the basics. The germ of an idea. People will add to it, as long as you're open to their input.
Earendill: That really depends on how strict your setting is. Sometimes it's fun to let players fill in gaps.
Kim: Star, what a grand idea. That's a special kind of investing in your community!
Loki: I think that depends on the setting you want. If it's a modern freeform group, you don't need much in the way of setting, but if you have a very specific idea of what you want, I think all of that needs to be put up first before you "open for business"
Kim: Earendill; if players are filling in the gaps, do you codify that and write it down so that it stays established?
StarArmy: In all seriousness, the initial idea doesn't need to be that big or that complex. It will build upon itself organically as your group and its RP adventures grow, especially if you provide a channel for the players to make submissions to the group lore.
PenGryphon2007: I'd say the more information you can provide, the better--especially if you have a very detailed setting. While you might know all the ins and outs of your world/group, those coming in really have very little to work with. So really, the more info you can include, the smoother (I think) things will run.
Heimdall: I think you can go into things pretty simple, and yeah like Ben and Earen said, the players help enrich it with their own ideas. But this depends on your preference as well. Some people like stricter continuities, so for those you might want to have more stuff set early on.
Ben: I've done both, in strict continuities where everything is set in stone, and then I've been involved with things like Roleplay Kingdoms, where everyone helped created the world.
Heimdall: Yes, Kim!!!
Dylan: If you have a specific setting in mind, a specific idea of how it is going to go, you may want to have quite a bit written up. If you're playing a set universe, Fallout or Harry Potter, there is a lot of information you may need to gather to stay true. The group I'm currently running has been around for 8 years but I've had people want to know what types of fish, animals, and plants grow in the area! Where we've only ever given vague answers to let people guess, they really wanted to know! Same thing with the cost of houses.
Heimdall: That is another immensely satisfying thing, when player ideas become a part of the world.
Nero: You need as much support for the setting as you want. If you have a specific idea for the setting, and you want to see people stick to it, you're going to need a lot of details covered in the setting documentation. If you just have an idea and you want to see where people go with it, a sentence may be enough.
Kim: Star, can you talk more about "submissions" to the group lore? You mean they need to get their idea okayed before they just put it into play, yes?
Earendill: Of course I do Kim! It'd be a waste to have a player add a brilliant idea and then forget about it or ignore it.
Dylan: If you're okay with allowing people to come up and decide things for themselves in your group, you don't need to worry about preparing too much. It is also a matter of control. If it is a relaxed group, you may not need to do more than a simple outline of whats going on in the group. If it is a strict setting, you may want to provide more information on the lore and environment.
fallensiner: well as far as the idea of the group needs to be it needs to be solid. If the idea is half baked then not all are going to be able to grasp the idea easy. Say it is a kingdom rp group, the the names of the lands need to be given. depending on the rp of course. But if it is more modern even the basic setting the timezone and then setting should cleary be adressed. After all if there is a history to it then it needs to be posted to allow newbies to get into the rp as well. Of course having it clear and present is always good for refrences as well.((wish i could type faster, ya'll are going soo fast))
Kim: Dylan: How do you keep information like what kind of fish and plants are in the area organized and easy to access? I could see that level of detail being totally overwhelming to a new player.
Heimdall: Though yes, I am really adamant about sticking to the lore... stuff can't become canon until I am comfortable with it. The setting, especially with a strict setting, is my baby. I have a vision for it, and I can't spread that vision around alone. IT has to be a shared vision amongst all the players.
Copper_Dragon: You need to have some idea of what on Earth (or Exodus
) you're running before you just open the doors. While your players can help enrich it, as has just been said, you need to have an idea of what material you and your players are writing with so they have a guiding hand. That way, you're not just floundering about in the dark going "Oh my god what do I do what do I doooo!?"It's a little give and take, oddly enough. You need to give the players some idea of what they're writing with in the setting's lore, but if you give too much freedom, it can ruin whatever idea you had going on in the first place.
Ben: On the forums of the group I currently admin with in furc, we have a "stuff you need to know" page, with links to all the MOST important information, so that new players don't have to go pouring through the forums.
Heimdall: So there has to be some simple information laid out somewhere easily accessible. Enough to get the player starter. Then detailed info linked from there, organized in chunks so the player can go find it when it becomes relevant.
Dylan: With our group we've based the location/environment loosely off of a real world location so people can look it up themselves. We have a website and a specific area designated to the CONTINUITY under that is the history of the group, a listing of the types of jobs ICly, a menu, a bestiary (which is included under geography with a map of the area.) If you have that information, you need to make sure it is easy to find and under the right header.
Kaji: Yes, it's the minimum needed to not make your character seem too out of place, but with links in so that they can get more depth and detail as they are ready for it.
StarArmy: Right. It's important that the group has a "filter" for additions to the lore because you want to weed out things that are unoriginal (stuff stolen from games and movies), low-quality, or ill-fitting within your shared universe. You can either have an admin approve things or a selected group of staff or you can do it with a direct group vote if you want everyone involved.
Earendill: A wiki, for example!
Olthain: It is useful for side information to keep it in seperate and locked topics. I have a sword art online group running at the moment, and I have made a seperate forum section in ot for useful information. That information is divided into different topics, each of them locked and pinned so everyone knows where to find it easily, and that nothing will get lost among many comments, making it confusing for new players to follow up on it.
Nero: I've always been a fan of making a wiki. If you have a lot of information, it lets people find it when they need it and see it appear as stuff they might want to look at while they're looking for something else.
fallensiner: yep dido, that sounds like a good thing havcing a wiki to allow newcomers to not be too overwhelmed. Of course having a more vetern group memeber help out the newcomer as well
Kim: Wow, this went from general to very specific advice in a hurry. Awesome.
So it seems like most people agree that however detailed the setting, you need to make the basic starter info super easy to access, and the detailed info well organized but not mixed into the starter stuff to prevent overwhelm (or terror)
Earendill: For some reason I read newcomer as necromancer.
StarArmy: By the way, I should mention that a WIKI is a huge essential for any long-term web RPG these days. They're easy to set up and you're going to need that easily searchable easily editable treasure trove of information. Your shared universe works smoothest when there's a common reference where all stakeholders can have access to. Wikis work better than cluttering up forums with information threads.
Copper_Dragon: Exactly, Kim.
Rynh: Agreed, Kim
Olthain: agreed
Kim: What are the advantages and disadvantages to a strict setting? Is one harder to run than the other?
Kaji: Yes, though I would like to add to something Dylan said earlier - when part of what you do ~is based on real life places or time periods, there is some expectation that people be able to do their own research. They're picking your setting/genre for a reason after all. I'd expect them to have some interest and knowledge in it.
StarArmy: On Star Army, we direct all the new people to a New Player Guide that breaks down the steps needed to get involved in the RP.
Kim: A basic wiki system is something we have under review as a possibility to add to our group system here, for those curious.
Sanne: Do you think that it's feasible for the average roleplayer to gain the knowledge and dedication to host a wiki on an external site outside of RPR, Star?
Heimdall: Strict settings are HAAAARD.
Sanne: Oh! That's interesting, Kim!
StarArmy: How strict is "strict?"
Loki: I think a strict setting is way harder Kim
Heimdall: People--at least on Furcadia--will NOT read your info before charging into the place and RPing.
Rynh: I think strict settings are a lot harder to manage
Ben: Strict settings are maddening to administrate.
Heimdall: They WILL break continuity.
StarArmy: Sanne: Yes
Ben: For the reasons Heimdall is mentioning.
Heimdall: An they WILL ignore your rules. In a strict setting, this is all more devastating.
Kim: What do you do to deal with that, Heimdall?
Kaji: The obvious disadvantage to a strict setting is that some will not wish to obey it, or cannot obey it, and move on to looser places, meaning you have a smaller group of regulars and thus a risk of stagnation. It's the cost of having more control.
Heimdall: Utter patience, mostly.
Earendill: Strict settings are enormously hard if you want to keep them strict. Not all player read/remember all information you provided and might break important rules that seem like small detail to them. Like an underground keep not having windows.
Dylan: A strict setting can be harder to do. It means you have to explain the setting regularly to new comers if they don't know what the group is all about. You will have to keep an eye on rule breakers... for example, my group is fantasy-medieval based and modern characters are not allowed. Sometimes you have modern characters trying to fit in, sometimes you have to let little things go. Strict roleplay groups can be stressful on your sanity and sometimes you need to decide if you reallllly want to fight that fight or let it go for the day.
Kaji: Equally the obvious advantage is that you don't have people running around with their arms up doing the nyuknyuk dance when other people are trying to tell a cohesive story.
StarArmy: I think we need to define strict settings before we discuss them.
Kim: If strict settings are so maddening, why do so many people bother?
Copper_Dragon:
