There is no such thing as a new idea. Not really. Everything has a base in something - is influenced by something. Be it life, other works or ideas of contrast with reality or popular themes.
Sometimes though, in a medium, there is a work that is a game-changer in that it is the first to truly embrace a specific theme or idea (or popularise one) in a manner that is heavily referenced and replicated by works that come after it. And it's a real shame when such works are forgotten to the extent that their attribution is overlooked in favour of a derivative work.
So with the idea in mind to shed light on such things, I figure it might be a fun area of discussion.
Here's something I want to talk about:
You see it a lot with modern space sci-fi centred around a group of rogues - "oh, this is Firefly-esque". As though Firefly is the granddaddy of that genre. Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe I know of any other TV sci-fi serial of it's era or earlier that combines western themes and space opera so directly as Firefly, so unless there's something I don't know about in that regard, then yeah, it was a pretty ground-breaking show. But it wasn't the first to introduce the anti-Trek criminals in space thing. Sci-fi aficionados will likely already be fully aware that Farscape came before it. But even then, that also heavily references earlier series.
Before Farscape came Lexx, a bizarre German-Canadian (and slightly British when funding is taken into account) show which... well it's kinda hard to explain. It's certainly unique in many ways and has some pretty novel ideas I haven't seen elsewhere. There do seem to be signs of influence taken from shows like Babylon 5 and books like Dune, but I don't think I've seen any shows that execute it in quite the same way. But again, misfit rogues in space did not start there.
Also coming in during the late 90s were a couple of anime TV shows with similar themes. Cowboy Bebop is of course the most famous one, but Outlaw Star is also a notable example.
Now... let's go back to the late 70s. To the archives of a certain broadcaster known as the BBC. And no, we're not talking about Doctor Who here (though there is an amusing story I've seen about this show and Doctor Who once shooting film in the same location at the same time and the crews bumping into each other). We're talking of course about a certain low-budget show (some would say far too low-budget for a space sci-fi series) that was pitched to the BBC as "The Dirty Dozen in Space". Very much influenced by Robin Hood, 1984 and The Magnificent Seven, Blake's 7 was specifically designed to counter the Good vs Evil narrative of Star Trek. Like Star Trek, Blake's 7 had a Federation (the bad guys in this case) and even had a logo based on the Federation insignia - rotated onto it's side as though to visually portray it's anti-Trek narrative. Who was the one to come up with this show? Why none other than Terry Nation, the man who created the Daleks for Doctor Who.
Just how much of a direct influence Blake's 7 was on Firefly, I don't know. But most certainly, it was cited as an influence for Babylon 5 (albeit a more minor one, given the differences between the shows). But though it's more discrete in the 'western' department, Blake's 7 certainly did 'space western' long before Firefly.
Does Blake's 7 stand the test of time? The opening episode (or two) is really good in my opinion, but the rest of the first season might be a bit of a slog from there. It does really suffer from it's low budget nature, but if you're into space sci-fi and have never heard of it, I suggest you give it a shot, particularly knowing how its themes were revived for Lexx, Farscape, Firefly, Dark Matter etc.
Anyone else know of any commonly-overlooked classics that helped shape the future of their genres? Can be any medium, from TV to music even to cars, etc.
Sometimes though, in a medium, there is a work that is a game-changer in that it is the first to truly embrace a specific theme or idea (or popularise one) in a manner that is heavily referenced and replicated by works that come after it. And it's a real shame when such works are forgotten to the extent that their attribution is overlooked in favour of a derivative work.
So with the idea in mind to shed light on such things, I figure it might be a fun area of discussion.
Here's something I want to talk about:
You see it a lot with modern space sci-fi centred around a group of rogues - "oh, this is Firefly-esque". As though Firefly is the granddaddy of that genre. Now don't get me wrong, I don't believe I know of any other TV sci-fi serial of it's era or earlier that combines western themes and space opera so directly as Firefly, so unless there's something I don't know about in that regard, then yeah, it was a pretty ground-breaking show. But it wasn't the first to introduce the anti-Trek criminals in space thing. Sci-fi aficionados will likely already be fully aware that Farscape came before it. But even then, that also heavily references earlier series.
Before Farscape came Lexx, a bizarre German-Canadian (and slightly British when funding is taken into account) show which... well it's kinda hard to explain. It's certainly unique in many ways and has some pretty novel ideas I haven't seen elsewhere. There do seem to be signs of influence taken from shows like Babylon 5 and books like Dune, but I don't think I've seen any shows that execute it in quite the same way. But again, misfit rogues in space did not start there.
Also coming in during the late 90s were a couple of anime TV shows with similar themes. Cowboy Bebop is of course the most famous one, but Outlaw Star is also a notable example.
Now... let's go back to the late 70s. To the archives of a certain broadcaster known as the BBC. And no, we're not talking about Doctor Who here (though there is an amusing story I've seen about this show and Doctor Who once shooting film in the same location at the same time and the crews bumping into each other). We're talking of course about a certain low-budget show (some would say far too low-budget for a space sci-fi series) that was pitched to the BBC as "The Dirty Dozen in Space". Very much influenced by Robin Hood, 1984 and The Magnificent Seven, Blake's 7 was specifically designed to counter the Good vs Evil narrative of Star Trek. Like Star Trek, Blake's 7 had a Federation (the bad guys in this case) and even had a logo based on the Federation insignia - rotated onto it's side as though to visually portray it's anti-Trek narrative. Who was the one to come up with this show? Why none other than Terry Nation, the man who created the Daleks for Doctor Who.
Just how much of a direct influence Blake's 7 was on Firefly, I don't know. But most certainly, it was cited as an influence for Babylon 5 (albeit a more minor one, given the differences between the shows). But though it's more discrete in the 'western' department, Blake's 7 certainly did 'space western' long before Firefly.
Does Blake's 7 stand the test of time? The opening episode (or two) is really good in my opinion, but the rest of the first season might be a bit of a slog from there. It does really suffer from it's low budget nature, but if you're into space sci-fi and have never heard of it, I suggest you give it a shot, particularly knowing how its themes were revived for Lexx, Farscape, Firefly, Dark Matter etc.
Anyone else know of any commonly-overlooked classics that helped shape the future of their genres? Can be any medium, from TV to music even to cars, etc.
Well thought out.
Well, Isaac Asimov. In fact, people keep telling robot overthrows humans stories so much that it sometimes annoys me. You can see it in Space Odyssey 2001, in The Matrix, and in the new, annoying Star Trek series which is not as good as the first two Star Trek series'...JUST SAYING... *GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE!* Also in Doctor Who via Cybermen.
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Mad scientist creates a monster. Classic trope.
I would say Jane Eyre, maybe.
Shakespeare. How many political backstabbing shows are there that imitate Julius Cesar? How many tragic romances imitate Romeo and Juliet?
And then, of course, there's Anne of Green Gables. An enthusiastic, energetic red-haired orphan with a good ethic finds a home, and breathes life into an old couple or old person who was beginning to think life had no meaning or softens a crabby old person. You can see that trope in the musical Annie.
Speaking of orphans -- Charles Dickens! Oliver is a classic orphan's tale that probably influenced Anne of Green Gables. And good old Scrooge from the Christmas story. I am going to go ahead and mention Scrooge McDuck, who swam around in his swimming pool of gold coins, because I am that age! (Hi, fellow Xennials...) So yes...ahem....*taps micrphone at podium* the writings of Charles Dickens influenced the venerable...Scrooge McDuck. Yep. I went there.
And what about Mickey Mouse? They haven't stopped making cute cartoon mice since. Ratatouille....
But more scholarly... Aesop's fables influenced EVERYthing.
And for you ex literature majors who happened to study this guy: Horatio Algiers and his rags to riches penny novels.
And Star Trek, honestly. But guess what influenced Star Trek--westerns! Gene Roddenberry pitched the idea as "A wagon train to the stars."
And you know who finally produced it? Lucille Ball of I Love Lucy and her husband Desi Arnez (sp?)! (Desilu Productions!)
And speaking of that --- Lucille Ball! Redheads who talk back to their husbands and get into mischief with their faithful girlfriends. Would we have had Laverne and Shirley, or even Will and Grace were it not for Lucille Ball? I don't think so. And shockingly--we wouldn't even have Star Trek! (mercy)
Help, somebody. I can't seem to stop. Lol.
Ohhhh!
All in the Family! Archie Bunker showing America why being racist made you look foolish and old fashioned. Spinoffs? The Jefferson's. Which influenced? Every single sit com since then. 227, Different Strokes, and eventually The Fresh Prince of Bel Aire which gave us...
*****drumroll****
Will Smith.
Who's wife was, I think, in Star Trek, the Abram's movie reboot, which, again, was funded originally back in the day by Lucille Ball, who's show I Love Lucy, again, ushered in a golden age of sit coms. Which led to All in the Family. Which led to sit coms that led to Will Smith.
It all comes full circle.
*drops the mic*
Picks it back up and whispers "Kevin Bacon."
*Runs away before all the Kevin Bacon and Footloose chaos ensues*
...
...
Well, Isaac Asimov. In fact, people keep telling robot overthrows humans stories so much that it sometimes annoys me. You can see it in Space Odyssey 2001, in The Matrix, and in the new, annoying Star Trek series which is not as good as the first two Star Trek series'...JUST SAYING... *GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE!* Also in Doctor Who via Cybermen.
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Mad scientist creates a monster. Classic trope.
I would say Jane Eyre, maybe.
Shakespeare. How many political backstabbing shows are there that imitate Julius Cesar? How many tragic romances imitate Romeo and Juliet?
And then, of course, there's Anne of Green Gables. An enthusiastic, energetic red-haired orphan with a good ethic finds a home, and breathes life into an old couple or old person who was beginning to think life had no meaning or softens a crabby old person. You can see that trope in the musical Annie.
Speaking of orphans -- Charles Dickens! Oliver is a classic orphan's tale that probably influenced Anne of Green Gables. And good old Scrooge from the Christmas story. I am going to go ahead and mention Scrooge McDuck, who swam around in his swimming pool of gold coins, because I am that age! (Hi, fellow Xennials...) So yes...ahem....*taps micrphone at podium* the writings of Charles Dickens influenced the venerable...Scrooge McDuck. Yep. I went there.
And what about Mickey Mouse? They haven't stopped making cute cartoon mice since. Ratatouille....
But more scholarly... Aesop's fables influenced EVERYthing.
And for you ex literature majors who happened to study this guy: Horatio Algiers and his rags to riches penny novels.
And Star Trek, honestly. But guess what influenced Star Trek--westerns! Gene Roddenberry pitched the idea as "A wagon train to the stars."
And you know who finally produced it? Lucille Ball of I Love Lucy and her husband Desi Arnez (sp?)! (Desilu Productions!)
And speaking of that --- Lucille Ball! Redheads who talk back to their husbands and get into mischief with their faithful girlfriends. Would we have had Laverne and Shirley, or even Will and Grace were it not for Lucille Ball? I don't think so. And shockingly--we wouldn't even have Star Trek! (mercy)
Help, somebody. I can't seem to stop. Lol.
Ohhhh!
All in the Family! Archie Bunker showing America why being racist made you look foolish and old fashioned. Spinoffs? The Jefferson's. Which influenced? Every single sit com since then. 227, Different Strokes, and eventually The Fresh Prince of Bel Aire which gave us...
*****drumroll****
Will Smith.
Who's wife was, I think, in Star Trek, the Abram's movie reboot, which, again, was funded originally back in the day by Lucille Ball, who's show I Love Lucy, again, ushered in a golden age of sit coms. Which led to All in the Family. Which led to sit coms that led to Will Smith.
It all comes full circle.
*drops the mic*
Picks it back up and whispers "Kevin Bacon."
*Runs away before all the Kevin Bacon and Footloose chaos ensues*
...
...
The Liaden Universe series, by Sharon Lee and Steve Miller. This is a novel series, space opera. Romance, clans, giant turtles.....
Space Rangers, old scifi show from the early 90s. It only lasted 6 episodes, but it was pretty amusing. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106144/
The Ivory series by Doris Egan, 3 books, another with clans, nice touch of magic and science. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/884583.The_Gate_of_Ivory
The Warlock series, by Christopher Stasheff, another scifi/fantasy mix. GREAT world building. Bit of magic, but with an interesting sciencey explanation, and a mechanical horse that has seizures. https://warlock.fandom.com/wiki/The_Warlock_in_Spite_of_Himself
Space Rangers, old scifi show from the early 90s. It only lasted 6 episodes, but it was pretty amusing. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106144/
The Ivory series by Doris Egan, 3 books, another with clans, nice touch of magic and science. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/884583.The_Gate_of_Ivory
The Warlock series, by Christopher Stasheff, another scifi/fantasy mix. GREAT world building. Bit of magic, but with an interesting sciencey explanation, and a mechanical horse that has seizures. https://warlock.fandom.com/wiki/The_Warlock_in_Spite_of_Himself
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