(Disclaimer: I am an autistic person with depression and anxiety. I can not claim to speak for people with other mental illnesses, but I can learn from what they have written and what they ask for, and this is what I have gathered and now pass on.)
Hey everyone, I wanted to talk to everyone about something I’ve seen going on. Something that is neither a new thing, nor likely to end in general. But if we can change just one small part of our world - RPR - we certainly should try!
How often have you seen a character who is nothing but their supposed mental illness, played up for hype and edginess? On TV, in movies, video games, books, and roleplays? How often have you seen someone in real life, in the real world, who has whatever mental illness, act like these representations you’ve otherwise seen?
Let me tell you, the answer is probably never. I’m not saying it never happens, never has or never will, but chances are that the person who has x mental illness is a nuanced individual who has maybe one or two symptoms, and certainly not to the almost comical extreme you’ve seen portrayed in fiction.
We have real people with real mental illness, and this representation is nothing like them. In fact we could easily make the conclusion that, on a small or large scale, these poor representations are harmful to the real people they attempt to describe, in many ways: People with bipolar disorder being seen as unstable, violent, unpredictable; Autistic people being seen as creepy, incapable of taking care of themselves. These things, these attitudes and views, can effect someone getting housing, a job, the lack of understanding can even lead to police shooting someone who’s having an episode. (See: Ableism)
But let’s get back to how this effects you, and our community. Even putting aside the IRL (In Real Life) consequences of poor portrayals, these poor portrayals often make RP unenjoyable. offensive. Who wants to RP with someone whose character has no depth past a Hollywood-style list of mental illness symptoms?
Talking with a few friends of mine, here is a small list we’ve come up with for common things that automatically make us just not even want to RP with someone:
I don’t want to beat down on people who want to realistically portray a mentally ill character. Really, I’d love to see some positive representation! But, just remember, when you want to make a character who has x y z mental illness, you are taking on a lot of responsibility to research and respectfully portray this, to make this character a person, and not just a caricature. Hollywood is not your friend here. If your portrayal looks like it came straight out of Hollywood, you need to sit back and rethink this.If you have a character that is a walking embodiment of a wiki-ed list of symptoms, with no other major attributes and abilities, rethink your character. If you are a non-mentally disabled person and encounter players doing these things, speak up and tell them it is not ok. Be an ally for disabled people, stop the spread of harmful stereotypes and lies that materially impact real, living people.
Hey everyone, I wanted to talk to everyone about something I’ve seen going on. Something that is neither a new thing, nor likely to end in general. But if we can change just one small part of our world - RPR - we certainly should try!
How often have you seen a character who is nothing but their supposed mental illness, played up for hype and edginess? On TV, in movies, video games, books, and roleplays? How often have you seen someone in real life, in the real world, who has whatever mental illness, act like these representations you’ve otherwise seen?
Let me tell you, the answer is probably never. I’m not saying it never happens, never has or never will, but chances are that the person who has x mental illness is a nuanced individual who has maybe one or two symptoms, and certainly not to the almost comical extreme you’ve seen portrayed in fiction.
We have real people with real mental illness, and this representation is nothing like them. In fact we could easily make the conclusion that, on a small or large scale, these poor representations are harmful to the real people they attempt to describe, in many ways: People with bipolar disorder being seen as unstable, violent, unpredictable; Autistic people being seen as creepy, incapable of taking care of themselves. These things, these attitudes and views, can effect someone getting housing, a job, the lack of understanding can even lead to police shooting someone who’s having an episode. (See: Ableism)
But let’s get back to how this effects you, and our community. Even putting aside the IRL (In Real Life) consequences of poor portrayals, these poor portrayals often make RP unenjoyable. offensive. Who wants to RP with someone whose character has no depth past a Hollywood-style list of mental illness symptoms?
Talking with a few friends of mine, here is a small list we’ve come up with for common things that automatically make us just not even want to RP with someone:
- Sanity/Stability Meters/Countdowns/Etc.: Unless you're playing Call of Cthulhu, this is inappropriate and inaccurate. As someone who deals with mental illness daily, I can tell you these things, my symptoms, my stability, do not exist on a linear meter, a percentage, a countdown.
- Lists of symptoms: We can just look on Wikipedia for that, if we want to read it. Chances are your character, RPed as a realistic person with depth, doesn’t have every single symptom. My advice is to a) Keep this to yourself, b) Pick one or two - or, better yet, talk to or read about real people with these illnesses to get a better idea about how it affects them, and c) I’d personally advise against even listing their mental illnesses in the first place.
- ’My character has ___, it’ll probably offend you!’: Look, you’ve identified that your character is offensive. Good, that’s the first step. Now, why? Is it because people don’t think ____ characters should ever be RPed because of their own poor assumptions...or is it because you are RPing ____ offensively? Take a step back and think.
- Characters who are built entirely around their mental illness, with no real personality or development, done for the shock/edgy factor. Just don’t do this.
- ’My character is EEEEVIL because they’re (insert mental illness, usually schizophrenia, psychopathy, or sociopathy)!!!’/’Because my character has/is ___, they’re evil!’/Any other variation on this theme: STOP. Your character is evil because they’re evil, not because they also have an illness. This is offensive and harmful.
I don’t want to beat down on people who want to realistically portray a mentally ill character. Really, I’d love to see some positive representation! But, just remember, when you want to make a character who has x y z mental illness, you are taking on a lot of responsibility to research and respectfully portray this, to make this character a person, and not just a caricature. Hollywood is not your friend here. If your portrayal looks like it came straight out of Hollywood, you need to sit back and rethink this.If you have a character that is a walking embodiment of a wiki-ed list of symptoms, with no other major attributes and abilities, rethink your character. If you are a non-mentally disabled person and encounter players doing these things, speak up and tell them it is not ok. Be an ally for disabled people, stop the spread of harmful stereotypes and lies that materially impact real, living people.
Praise this!
I can deeply relate to this, as a person who has been diagnosed with different things, that make others kind of "afraid" of me. It really sucks. And then seeing a character that basically is violent because of diagnosis x that's not actually true in real life? It hurts inside when I see that. But hey, some people are not so much aware of it, as some other people are.
There's place for everyone, and remember get some research done when you have the time, before setting yourself into a situation you are uncertain in!
Thank you so much for putting this up, Tate!!
I can deeply relate to this, as a person who has been diagnosed with different things, that make others kind of "afraid" of me. It really sucks. And then seeing a character that basically is violent because of diagnosis x that's not actually true in real life? It hurts inside when I see that. But hey, some people are not so much aware of it, as some other people are.
There's place for everyone, and remember get some research done when you have the time, before setting yourself into a situation you are uncertain in!
Thank you so much for putting this up, Tate!!
I'm glad you enjoyed this post, Celeritate. This is something that's been bothering me deeply, and that - hey - I was guilty of, myself, at one point. While my own stopping wasn't brought my people educating me regarding my character, it was brought around by education about people and mental illness in general. Nevertheless, I hope this helps other players out. At the very least, people like yourself and I will see this and know we're not alone, and perhaps find RPers who won't do these things via thsi thread.
I seen it used allot in role-play and in fanfiction. It really grinds my gears. I seen a few people try to use it as a crutch on their characters for the attention. This threat is helpful, however!
But how will people know that my character is unique and interesting if their profile page doesn't contain half the DSM?[/s]
Joking aside, this is very well put. When a person portrays a mental illness well, it can provide surprising perspective into what it might be like for some people with that condition. When the person thought that a mental illness sounded cool and edgy and throw it on there for the heck of it, their characters turn into rude parodies of a serious topic.
The way I see it is, unless adding a disability/mental illness specifically adds to the character or has a significant impact on the way they play - that accurately reflects the real life consequences - it shouldn't be added.
Joking aside, this is very well put. When a person portrays a mental illness well, it can provide surprising perspective into what it might be like for some people with that condition. When the person thought that a mental illness sounded cool and edgy and throw it on there for the heck of it, their characters turn into rude parodies of a serious topic.
The way I see it is, unless adding a disability/mental illness specifically adds to the character or has a significant impact on the way they play - that accurately reflects the real life consequences - it shouldn't be added.
On a similar note, when a character has OCD, hell when a person says "I'm so OCD!"
OCD isn't being tidy, it is, by definition, a mental illness where a thought, an action, anything, gets caught in a constant, repeating loop in your head. The most known cases of it are cleaning, the thought of all that grime and untidiness being looped forever in their heads.
But it's more than that. It can be everything, every waking thought in someone's day, their mental capacity horribly crippled by these looping thoughts that they know serve no purpose.
Then the urges come, the urges to get rid of these damned thoughts, to rid your head of the loops, and that's why the routines begin. Because they appease the loops, they end them, and leave your head to silence.
...For the time being, of course. It comes back, it always comes back. Then, out of habit, you do what you did last time. You clean, you pace, you check all the locked doors no less than three times.
And when people, knowing this about you take it as a joke, as something that isn't a big deal?
That's when I hate people who go "I'm so OCD!" or make characters with mental illnesses that define them. It's sickening, hell, a character shouldn't even be mentioned as having a mental illness. Why would it matter? If they have the symptoms, that's one thing, but flat out saying "Mary Jane has OCD." Isn't defining her/him whatsoever.
/rant
OCD isn't being tidy, it is, by definition, a mental illness where a thought, an action, anything, gets caught in a constant, repeating loop in your head. The most known cases of it are cleaning, the thought of all that grime and untidiness being looped forever in their heads.
But it's more than that. It can be everything, every waking thought in someone's day, their mental capacity horribly crippled by these looping thoughts that they know serve no purpose.
Then the urges come, the urges to get rid of these damned thoughts, to rid your head of the loops, and that's why the routines begin. Because they appease the loops, they end them, and leave your head to silence.
...For the time being, of course. It comes back, it always comes back. Then, out of habit, you do what you did last time. You clean, you pace, you check all the locked doors no less than three times.
And when people, knowing this about you take it as a joke, as something that isn't a big deal?
That's when I hate people who go "I'm so OCD!" or make characters with mental illnesses that define them. It's sickening, hell, a character shouldn't even be mentioned as having a mental illness. Why would it matter? If they have the symptoms, that's one thing, but flat out saying "Mary Jane has OCD." Isn't defining her/him whatsoever.
/rant
Harvest wrote:
Snip
Beautifully put.
I'll be honest here guys, I don't seem to follow your arguements.
First, psychological diagnosis are largely a guessing game, and the symptoms are key. Yes, you may not have them all, but you do need x symptoms out of y possible to be diagnosed. It's the whole point of the DSM V. So the doctors of psychology have a uniform basis for their judgement calls. You only have two symptoms of the disease? Odds are you don't have the disease. Let's look for a better fit. Example: my son was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. He had all but two of the 20+ symptoms. He developed the other two after his diagnosis.
As far as characters go, let's say someone has one of the more debilitating disease, like paranoid schizophrenia. Are you suggesting that isn't going to govern the character? It would permiate every part of their life. Do you expect something more then average person beyond that? Or are they supposed to be a superhero when the voices aren't warning them of judgement day? Think of it this way: would you make a movie about an autistic child, and not cover any of the autism? It would be two hours of a kid not making eye contact and lining up his toys.
My mother was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive tendencies. A step down from the full disorder. She'd vacuum at 2 am. Her magnet collection had to be arranged perfectly. Me and my entire family did things to mess with her, because it was funny. And she was fine with it. You can't demand equality, then complain if people treat you like a normal person.
These forums... The games. It's all fiction. You're right, Hollywood does overplay things to the extreme. But they do it for entertainment... So it seems to me it is a viable source, because isn't that why we're here? Entertainment? To hear the voices telling us to kill? To solve mysteries because we have no choice but to sweat the details? To accidentally break her neck because her hair is soft?
I'm saying this not to be mean. I commend you for wanting to change the world. But a forum for fantasy, and scifi fiction that lends itself to escapism isn't the place to demand realism.
First, psychological diagnosis are largely a guessing game, and the symptoms are key. Yes, you may not have them all, but you do need x symptoms out of y possible to be diagnosed. It's the whole point of the DSM V. So the doctors of psychology have a uniform basis for their judgement calls. You only have two symptoms of the disease? Odds are you don't have the disease. Let's look for a better fit. Example: my son was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. He had all but two of the 20+ symptoms. He developed the other two after his diagnosis.
As far as characters go, let's say someone has one of the more debilitating disease, like paranoid schizophrenia. Are you suggesting that isn't going to govern the character? It would permiate every part of their life. Do you expect something more then average person beyond that? Or are they supposed to be a superhero when the voices aren't warning them of judgement day? Think of it this way: would you make a movie about an autistic child, and not cover any of the autism? It would be two hours of a kid not making eye contact and lining up his toys.
My mother was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive tendencies. A step down from the full disorder. She'd vacuum at 2 am. Her magnet collection had to be arranged perfectly. Me and my entire family did things to mess with her, because it was funny. And she was fine with it. You can't demand equality, then complain if people treat you like a normal person.
These forums... The games. It's all fiction. You're right, Hollywood does overplay things to the extreme. But they do it for entertainment... So it seems to me it is a viable source, because isn't that why we're here? Entertainment? To hear the voices telling us to kill? To solve mysteries because we have no choice but to sweat the details? To accidentally break her neck because her hair is soft?
I'm saying this not to be mean. I commend you for wanting to change the world. But a forum for fantasy, and scifi fiction that lends itself to escapism isn't the place to demand realism.
Yes! Thank you so much!
Beautifully put, and something that is quite needed in the roleplay community.
Beautifully put, and something that is quite needed in the roleplay community.
> "As far as characters go, let's say someone has one of the more debilitating disease, like paranoid schizophrenia. Are you suggesting that isn't going to govern the character?"
But is that the only defining characteristic of the person? Are they molded around the fact of "X is a villian with Y!"? This is the issue I find myself angry with, people defining characters with a single trait, and designing them around it. It's one thing to have a character that has paranoid schizophrenia, it's another when that's all that character is about.
But is that the only defining characteristic of the person? Are they molded around the fact of "X is a villian with Y!"? This is the issue I find myself angry with, people defining characters with a single trait, and designing them around it. It's one thing to have a character that has paranoid schizophrenia, it's another when that's all that character is about.
Really, I can agree with many points on both sides. I have an autistic cousin and we all love her to death. I go to martial arts class with a slightly autistic boy and I really couldn't imagine class without him.
You can't deny that some extreme cases could warrant that much of the character revolve around some kind of mental illness either though. For instance, one of my characters that I play anonymously has no memory before the traumatic experiences of being trapped and tested on, giving her an extreme fear and abhorrence towards doctors, needles and cages. Also, being a supernatural creature, this experience makes her extremely distrustful of humans.
Another of my characters, Tolora Mikiko, was raised solely by her mother on a secluded mountain forest where she had absolutely no contact with other beings. And then her mother-keep in mind this is the only person she knows or loves-dies at the hands of some unknown attacker. Now, Tolora's only goal is to avenge her fallen mother and she pushes everyone away in fear of her actually loving soemone again.
Wait those aren't very real situations are they? Because they're not technically real. The best any of us can hope to do is try to portray a character as realistically as possible. Or not. As TaintedCaribou pointed out, we are doing this for our own entertainment. Sometimes people create these "evil" characters to be the villain in a roleplay and they may give them an extreme case of a mental illness. I sincerely doubt that anyone on here creates mentally ill characters for the purpose of offending those who players have the very real mental illness. They may be under-researched characters or simply characters that people make that haven't been fleshed out yet. Like if they start to get an idea for a character and maybe they know they want the character to have a certain mental illness so they wait to roleplay the character before putting more up on their page.
If these kind of characters offend you, the best thing you can do is just not roleplay with them. Or, if a character like this comes into an open roleplay that you are in, you could PM them about how their character may be offending or upsetting you. If you don't let the player know that you find their character offensive, they can't do anything to change their character. Now hopefully, most people on here would respond asking how to make their character more realistic (if that's their goal) or they may say that their character isn't meant to be realistic. If worst comes to worst, you can always block the player and leave the roleplay. A "PM me to join" topic in the forums could also be a good way to make sure that the players entering the roleplay with you won't offend you.
You can't deny that some extreme cases could warrant that much of the character revolve around some kind of mental illness either though. For instance, one of my characters that I play anonymously has no memory before the traumatic experiences of being trapped and tested on, giving her an extreme fear and abhorrence towards doctors, needles and cages. Also, being a supernatural creature, this experience makes her extremely distrustful of humans.
Another of my characters, Tolora Mikiko, was raised solely by her mother on a secluded mountain forest where she had absolutely no contact with other beings. And then her mother-keep in mind this is the only person she knows or loves-dies at the hands of some unknown attacker. Now, Tolora's only goal is to avenge her fallen mother and she pushes everyone away in fear of her actually loving soemone again.
Wait those aren't very real situations are they? Because they're not technically real. The best any of us can hope to do is try to portray a character as realistically as possible. Or not. As TaintedCaribou pointed out, we are doing this for our own entertainment. Sometimes people create these "evil" characters to be the villain in a roleplay and they may give them an extreme case of a mental illness. I sincerely doubt that anyone on here creates mentally ill characters for the purpose of offending those who players have the very real mental illness. They may be under-researched characters or simply characters that people make that haven't been fleshed out yet. Like if they start to get an idea for a character and maybe they know they want the character to have a certain mental illness so they wait to roleplay the character before putting more up on their page.
If these kind of characters offend you, the best thing you can do is just not roleplay with them. Or, if a character like this comes into an open roleplay that you are in, you could PM them about how their character may be offending or upsetting you. If you don't let the player know that you find their character offensive, they can't do anything to change their character. Now hopefully, most people on here would respond asking how to make their character more realistic (if that's their goal) or they may say that their character isn't meant to be realistic. If worst comes to worst, you can always block the player and leave the roleplay. A "PM me to join" topic in the forums could also be a good way to make sure that the players entering the roleplay with you won't offend you.
I'm really not in the condition to debate or even talk much right now, so this is very brief. But I just want to point something out: Please stop speaking with authority on mental illness because you know someone who is x/y/z. You know who I know who's autistic? Me.
Anyway... Directed at multiple people, and also: holy cow some of you have missed the point by miles. And no, it's not just all fun and games and thus we can all be offensive horrendous awfuls.
Anyway... Directed at multiple people, and also: holy cow some of you have missed the point by miles. And no, it's not just all fun and games and thus we can all be offensive horrendous awfuls.
Actually, it really is just fun and games. Role-playing is not real-life, nor should it be. Myself, I actually agree with Tate to a large degree on portraying anything in reality in a believable (I tend to avoid "realism", but I do go for believability) manner. That said, I accept a lot of people don't. I accept that a lot of people enjoy things I don't, or they enjoy things I avidly dislike, and plenty of people enjoy things that squick me the heck out and make me run away.
But that's their right. Until and unless the administration set further rules on what is and isn't allowed, they get to do that. And I'm honestly all for it. I may despise X character archetype and Y story set-up, but I don't have to have anything to do with them, either. That goes for everyone else.
I guess, at the end of it, I'm standing with TaintedCaribou and Tolora. It's fiction. It's a hobby. It's a game. When people do things that aren't liked, there are many ways to deal with it so they aren't affecting one. But to say that what makes role-play "unenjoyable" for one person should be a concern of every single player in the community--I can't get behind that. I really can't. And I say this as someone with plenty of things that irritate or disgust me that are common as heck around here.
Nothing here affects real-life. No one goes away from a story thinking about hunting demons in real-life, or that all humans with X mental aspect and label must act in Y fashion, and if anyone did, it's no fault of the community. It's the fault of the individual having no idea what the word "fiction" means.
But that's their right. Until and unless the administration set further rules on what is and isn't allowed, they get to do that. And I'm honestly all for it. I may despise X character archetype and Y story set-up, but I don't have to have anything to do with them, either. That goes for everyone else.
I guess, at the end of it, I'm standing with TaintedCaribou and Tolora. It's fiction. It's a hobby. It's a game. When people do things that aren't liked, there are many ways to deal with it so they aren't affecting one. But to say that what makes role-play "unenjoyable" for one person should be a concern of every single player in the community--I can't get behind that. I really can't. And I say this as someone with plenty of things that irritate or disgust me that are common as heck around here.
Nothing here affects real-life. No one goes away from a story thinking about hunting demons in real-life, or that all humans with X mental aspect and label must act in Y fashion, and if anyone did, it's no fault of the community. It's the fault of the individual having no idea what the word "fiction" means.
A couple of people here misunderstand.
Nobody's saying DON'T PLAY ANYONE THAT ISN'T NEUROTYPICAL, EVER, WRAH, and like Tolora points out in their first section, if there are reasons for actions and behaviors, then that's so much the better. But Harvest gets it: reducing a character SOLELY to a list of casually Wiki'd symptoms and then entirely depending on that for characterization, is lazy and often ill-thought-out (I'm stopping just short of 'offensive' and settling for 'uneducated' because I'm sure nobody means to offend) on top of it all.
But your characters are real. Sure, they're fictional, but within their own settings, among other characters, interacting with their own environments, they are indeed 'real.' They have thoughts, opinions, likes and dislikes, they should exist fully formed within their own worlds. And with a few vastly 'inhuman' exceptions, your characters are still people, and people aren't (and shouldn't) be boiled down to ONLY a laundry list of quirky/eeeeeevil symptoms someone saw on TV that one time.
And on that note, another matter is that a lot of the Hollywood-type diagnoses - from which a lot of beginning writers are getting this information - are flat-out wrong. You can't say someone is schizophrenic and promptly portray them as having multiple broad personalities at once - and until Sherlock, Hannibal and Doctor Who started romanticizing (and often mishandling) 'sociopath'/'psychopath' lately, that was the biggest offender I'd seen around here and other parts.
Roleplay based in unreality, sure, but these conditions aren't; when you're dragging real world illnesses into it - which real people have and often suffer - you are bound by a degree of faithfulness to the thing at hand, especially when you're in a group and social setting, and ESPECIALLY once you invoke the terminology involved. Even something as simple as not labeling what's going on in your character's head and describing how it affects them and others in-game, instead (oh, look, show don't tell! Writing always seems to come back to that!) will work a few wonders.
Nobody's declaring whether or not you should play with the kids that do this (I won't, but you've probably gathered why at this point) - but at the same time, it's good to at least be aware of who you are potentially hurting.
Nobody's saying DON'T PLAY ANYONE THAT ISN'T NEUROTYPICAL, EVER, WRAH, and like Tolora points out in their first section, if there are reasons for actions and behaviors, then that's so much the better. But Harvest gets it: reducing a character SOLELY to a list of casually Wiki'd symptoms and then entirely depending on that for characterization, is lazy and often ill-thought-out (I'm stopping just short of 'offensive' and settling for 'uneducated' because I'm sure nobody means to offend) on top of it all.
But your characters are real. Sure, they're fictional, but within their own settings, among other characters, interacting with their own environments, they are indeed 'real.' They have thoughts, opinions, likes and dislikes, they should exist fully formed within their own worlds. And with a few vastly 'inhuman' exceptions, your characters are still people, and people aren't (and shouldn't) be boiled down to ONLY a laundry list of quirky/eeeeeevil symptoms someone saw on TV that one time.
And on that note, another matter is that a lot of the Hollywood-type diagnoses - from which a lot of beginning writers are getting this information - are flat-out wrong. You can't say someone is schizophrenic and promptly portray them as having multiple broad personalities at once - and until Sherlock, Hannibal and Doctor Who started romanticizing (and often mishandling) 'sociopath'/'psychopath' lately, that was the biggest offender I'd seen around here and other parts.
Roleplay based in unreality, sure, but these conditions aren't; when you're dragging real world illnesses into it - which real people have and often suffer - you are bound by a degree of faithfulness to the thing at hand, especially when you're in a group and social setting, and ESPECIALLY once you invoke the terminology involved. Even something as simple as not labeling what's going on in your character's head and describing how it affects them and others in-game, instead (oh, look, show don't tell! Writing always seems to come back to that!) will work a few wonders.
Nobody's declaring whether or not you should play with the kids that do this (I won't, but you've probably gathered why at this point) - but at the same time, it's good to at least be aware of who you are potentially hurting.
Barring the terms of service and rules of conduct, no one is bound to anything at all. The only thing role-playing is about is fun, and whether it's liked or not, people legitimately find that sort of thing fun. Me, I don't, because I agree taking the Hollywood examples of things is disingenuous, but in the end my opinion doesn't matter. No one's does.
It doesn't hurt anyone, what other people choose to do on the Repository to find their fun. It doesn't hurt anyone, and saying it does amidst telling people they shouldn't do it--that, too, is disingenuous. And yez, enumerating reasons why doing something is bad, claiming it hurts people, that's telling others to not do it.
For the record, I wish people didn't do it, either, even though I was sadly guilty of it in my time. It just doesn't matter, because it's fun for them, and fun is the only thing that counts.
You and I don't like it, so we avoid it. That's our right and privilege. It is their right, their privilege, to find their fun however they want.
It doesn't hurt anyone, what other people choose to do on the Repository to find their fun. It doesn't hurt anyone, and saying it does amidst telling people they shouldn't do it--that, too, is disingenuous. And yez, enumerating reasons why doing something is bad, claiming it hurts people, that's telling others to not do it.
For the record, I wish people didn't do it, either, even though I was sadly guilty of it in my time. It just doesn't matter, because it's fun for them, and fun is the only thing that counts.
You and I don't like it, so we avoid it. That's our right and privilege. It is their right, their privilege, to find their fun however they want.
It very much does hurt people to stupidly perpetuate false information about mental illnesses. Schizophrenia is one of the more common ones misrepresented because Hollywood, and numerous other imbeciles who think mental illness is a catch all for chaotic evil behavior. Because of the bizarre fanciful ways it's portrayed, real people who suffer from schizophrenia suffer from horrible stereotypes and discrimination. People think they're violent or dangerous or liable to snap at any minute. They have a hard time being taken seriously by people around them (even their own DOCTORS) because "they're crazy" and "you don't know who you're talking to." The mentally ill get passed over for job opportunities or get fired. They get denied housing. They have their children taken away from them. And while people are under some stupid impression that the schizophrenic are violent criminals, they are overwhelmingly peaceful people who are FAR more likely to be on the RECEIVING end of abuse than a perpetrator of it.
Whenever someone decides they're gonna trot out the "He kills people because his split personality is evil, teehee!" argument, they perpetuate that stereotype and play into the cycle of abuse against the mentally ill.
In addition, the more people see these stupid stereotypes and believe them, the harder it is to recognize their own symptoms. Say you start hearing a voice in your head telling you to cut your wrists, but you don't think it's schizophrenia. Because hey, schizophrenia is that split personality thing where you go crazy, right? And SURELY you don't have that! Maybe you can deal with this on your own, it's ONLY a voice...
It straight up does hurt people. I am saying people shouldn't do it even if it is "fun." It's still bad and it still hurts people. I find fireworks fun but I know better than to launch them in the parking lot at 3 AM because I'd be a dangerous nuisance. Obnoxious and stupid at best and a real hazard at worst.
As far as the terms and conditions go, if your only defense for something is "Well it isn't expressly against the rules!" Then it might be a pretty fair indicator that you don't actually have all that concrete of a foundation for your argument. We have terms that exist for people who are only nice because they fear the consequences of being mean. None of them are nice words. You either have to own that or you have to change your behavior, you don't get both.
Actual mentally ill people do straight up say that it is harmful and that they wish it would stop. You don't get to decide whether or not it hurts them. They will tell you it does. You don't get any if ands or buts about it. It does. Period. If you're cool with hurting people then it isn't just having fun, is it?
Find a better idea of fun.
Whenever someone decides they're gonna trot out the "He kills people because his split personality is evil, teehee!" argument, they perpetuate that stereotype and play into the cycle of abuse against the mentally ill.
In addition, the more people see these stupid stereotypes and believe them, the harder it is to recognize their own symptoms. Say you start hearing a voice in your head telling you to cut your wrists, but you don't think it's schizophrenia. Because hey, schizophrenia is that split personality thing where you go crazy, right? And SURELY you don't have that! Maybe you can deal with this on your own, it's ONLY a voice...
It straight up does hurt people. I am saying people shouldn't do it even if it is "fun." It's still bad and it still hurts people. I find fireworks fun but I know better than to launch them in the parking lot at 3 AM because I'd be a dangerous nuisance. Obnoxious and stupid at best and a real hazard at worst.
As far as the terms and conditions go, if your only defense for something is "Well it isn't expressly against the rules!" Then it might be a pretty fair indicator that you don't actually have all that concrete of a foundation for your argument. We have terms that exist for people who are only nice because they fear the consequences of being mean. None of them are nice words. You either have to own that or you have to change your behavior, you don't get both.
Actual mentally ill people do straight up say that it is harmful and that they wish it would stop. You don't get to decide whether or not it hurts them. They will tell you it does. You don't get any if ands or buts about it. It does. Period. If you're cool with hurting people then it isn't just having fun, is it?
Find a better idea of fun.
It's "straight up" not your call to make. That's really all there is to it. You can argue, you can whine, you can stamp your foot until you're blue in the face, but the fact remains that you have the right and the privilege to seek your role-play however you want it--but so do they.
Any attempt to try to take that freedom away on a game is arrogant and inane.
Any attempt to try to take that freedom away on a game is arrogant and inane.
I enjoy that you are portraying people who care about others and the harm caused them through poor representation as tantruming children. It speaks well of you.
So are you admitting you have no point other than 'neener neener I'll get my fun regardless of who it hurts and you're just a big baby fun hater'?
Like really, yeah, you have a 'right', (which, by the way, is not only a flimsy excuse to hurt people, but also not entirely true, as this is a privately owned site that can, at any time, take that 'right' away) as in, you CAN, BUT this is a question of if you SHOULD. The answer here is a clear and resounding NO. You have people here giving you personal accounts of how this hurts them. Do they not count? I suppose you'd just rather talk over them, and that, sadly, is nothing new.
Just fyi, Tolara has been speaking to me in private and we can add another person to understanding that this it's wrong and not okay, not that they were far from the point in the first place.
Hm.
So are you admitting you have no point other than 'neener neener I'll get my fun regardless of who it hurts and you're just a big baby fun hater'?
Like really, yeah, you have a 'right', (which, by the way, is not only a flimsy excuse to hurt people, but also not entirely true, as this is a privately owned site that can, at any time, take that 'right' away) as in, you CAN, BUT this is a question of if you SHOULD. The answer here is a clear and resounding NO. You have people here giving you personal accounts of how this hurts them. Do they not count? I suppose you'd just rather talk over them, and that, sadly, is nothing new.
Just fyi, Tolara has been speaking to me in private and we can add another person to understanding that this it's wrong and not okay, not that they were far from the point in the first place.
Hm.
Re-read what I said a few posts back. I don't like that they do it. I'm just not arrogant enough to believe that what I like should dictate what someone else does in their stories that I am in no way a part of nor influenced by.
I was also on your side, to a very large degree, sharing a personal distaste. That was before your passive-aggressive post about what you "enjoy" and your oh-so witty aspersions cast so freely.
This is almost the time for a mod to step in and give some sort of comment on the matter, just so this can end.
I was also on your side, to a very large degree, sharing a personal distaste. That was before your passive-aggressive post about what you "enjoy" and your oh-so witty aspersions cast so freely.
This is almost the time for a mod to step in and give some sort of comment on the matter, just so this can end.
It's my understanding that the main problem here is this thing people have lately, where the whole word has to cater to their pains and their beliefs, with no real actions coming from them. It's not "it bothers me, but I can probably avoid it", it's "it bothers me, so everyone MUST bend to my whims, lest I be offended and create trouble"
You CAN actively avoid these RPs, you CAN choose to simply not play with these people, but you seem to have this misguided belief that because it offends you, it must be changed IMMEDIATELY. That is a bigger problem than any of these portrayals ever will be, and I'm seeing it happen more and more.
You honestly can't expect everything in the world to align to your tastes, which is why you have the freedom to choose to not engage with those things that do not align with what you want. If you really expect the world to completely accommodate to what you like and what you find offensive, then get ready for a REALLY rough ride through life.
If someone is actively offending you, pushing these things upon you, then by all means complain and get up in arms about it. But if you're just being offended, bothered or annoyed by things that have an easier solution (you avoiding them) than having EVERYONE do an overhaul and cater to you, then you're the problem.
And I know this will be picked apart, shot down with arguments about different social movements, heck even Hitler might make an appearance. But PLEASE, PLEAAAAAAASE, as you read this post to completely tear me apart with your argument, really think about the words. Think about the feeling of entitlement one has to have to expect others to completely cater to their needs, and ask yourself if there's not a better, simpler way we can all just get along in this beautiful community.
Can't we all just get along?
You CAN actively avoid these RPs, you CAN choose to simply not play with these people, but you seem to have this misguided belief that because it offends you, it must be changed IMMEDIATELY. That is a bigger problem than any of these portrayals ever will be, and I'm seeing it happen more and more.
You honestly can't expect everything in the world to align to your tastes, which is why you have the freedom to choose to not engage with those things that do not align with what you want. If you really expect the world to completely accommodate to what you like and what you find offensive, then get ready for a REALLY rough ride through life.
If someone is actively offending you, pushing these things upon you, then by all means complain and get up in arms about it. But if you're just being offended, bothered or annoyed by things that have an easier solution (you avoiding them) than having EVERYONE do an overhaul and cater to you, then you're the problem.
And I know this will be picked apart, shot down with arguments about different social movements, heck even Hitler might make an appearance. But PLEASE, PLEAAAAAAASE, as you read this post to completely tear me apart with your argument, really think about the words. Think about the feeling of entitlement one has to have to expect others to completely cater to their needs, and ask yourself if there's not a better, simpler way we can all just get along in this beautiful community.
Can't we all just get along?
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