So I'm working on this *combat system for Johann, and it doesn't use preps. Well, not in a conventional way, anyway.
*Simplified, lesser explanation towards the end of the page
Y'see, in zOMG, GaiaOnline's MMO (and where Johann comes from), they use weapons in the form of magical rings. These rings can be summoned in four different forms-- each one more powerful than the last, provided you've channeled enough energy to use each form. You get this energy from using a ring and from being hit by foes' attacks.
And I'm trying to put this into a free-form system, staying true to zOMG's system while still being fair, but I'm hitting some... snags. Would someone like to try to help me work my kinks and concerns out?
Overview of what I'm trying to accomplish
If so, let's see if I can make this make as much sense as possible to zOMG players and non-players alike:
In zOMG, there's four stages of a ring's power, called "Rage Ranks" 1-4. 1 is a basic form, 2 is slightly more powerful, 3 is more powerful than 2, and 4 is the ultimate power a ring can use. If these were preps, they'd probably look like this:
Rank 1: 1 prep (all RR1 rings are instant-cast)
Rank 2: 2-3 preps
Rank 3: 4-5 preps
Rank 4: 6-7 preps
But what I've got is... well, not quite that.
What I've got instead is a numerical counter, split into 4 parts. Here's how I think it'll work on paper/in theory.
The Rank Counter
In my playing the game, I've gotten a rough estimate that it takes 32 "ticks" to get from Rank 1 to Rank 4, meaning a player either needs to use their ring at Rank 1 thirty-two times w/o somehow being hit back, be hit by an enemy thirty-two times w/o hitting back, or a mix of the two (like one normally sees in game play). As a result, I made a counter of sorts to emulate this in free-form. It has a range of 0-32, with the ranks being split into 8 points each (32/4 = 8 ). The counter gets 1 point added to it per hit and per ring used.
So for example, Johann's just gotten into a fight. The counter is at 0. He uses a ring.
Next round, the enemy is hit but manages to kick him in the shin. Johann's hit by the kick(1), but let's say he manages to use the ring again(1).
... and so on and so forth. The counter accumulates points and channels more and more power into the rings during their use. To try to balance this, if Johann uses a ring beyond Rank 1, his counter drops to 0 or 1; 0 if the combat finishes at that post, 1 if it continues after that post. This simulates the fact that in zOMG, the Rank meter recycles a small amount energy after a ring has been used regardless of what Rank it was used at.
Displaying The Counter & Transitions Between Ranks
Like [#/#] prep displays in posts, I want to make a display for this system. I'm just not sure how to cleanly show both what number the counter is currently at, whether it's changing ranks or not, and how many points have been accumulated during a post. I have a rough idea of some of this.
Point Accumulation
What I've gotten this far is that a (1) can be added after every sentence that shows Johann's counter has just gotten a point added to it. Only a single point is gained per hit or ring use, but nonetheless it still means I could get large numbers gathered if multiple foes were targeting my character AND rings were being used. While I'm not too worried about how many points could be added (we'll get to that in a bit), I am worried about the cleanliness. Would it be bothersome to see (1)'s in the post, regardless of how many are there?
If so, I need to figure out a better way to tally up the points while indicating this to other players so it stays fair. They can keep track of the counter just like I am.
Rank Transition
So the more points gathered in the counter, the higher a rank Johann can use. But how do I best display this in brackets?
At first I had a [(current number)+(Tallied numbers) = Current Number of 32], but I felt that this was not only long, but also didn't blatantly indicate what Rank Johann is currently at and might be able to move onto.
So then I came up with this:
[RR1, #/8] ---> if it goes beyond 8, [RR2, #/16] ---->if it goes beyond 16, [RR3, #/24] ----> if it goes beyond 24, [RR4, #/32]
It shows where Johann is currently and potentially where he could go next. If he gets 8/8 (right at the end of RR1), and it bumps up to 9, I could display [RR2, 9/16] in the post where the transition happens.
Okay, so if that works, how can I put the two together?
This brings on a whole new set of questions. Is it unfair to show the current counter, but not the tallies in the brackets even if they're marked in the post itself? If so, how do I cleanly show the two displays together in brackets without having a mile long [Display]?
How To Keep This Fair
I've already decided that there's a potential for a lot of points to be gained in a single post, depending on the number of times a hit is taken and the use of a ring. I'm banking on a couple of things I can only definitively find out through RP, however:
First, Johann can only use one ring per post, even though he has 2 on his person. One is an active ring and thus uses the counter, and one gives a passive ability and has no bearing on the counter. If he gained more "active" rings later on, it wouldn't matter-- he could still only use one ring per post. The counter also works for all rings-- if he had a Rank of 2-3 and had only been using a certain ring until then, he could still switch to another ring and use its Rank 2-3. However, Johann only has one active ring, and I always plan for him to only have one, so this key point becomes somewhat moot.
Secondly, it usually becomes harder to focus and use weapons when one is getting the ever-loving-crap beaten out of them. I should hope that my taking realistic hits in combat that diminish my character's ability to instant-cast the rings effectively makes this even fairer. If Johann's taking hits from multiple foes or a single foe getting in a lot of hits in one go, points are accumulating, but it doesn't mean Johann can utilize them if he's taking quite a beating.
In Closing
I've already run the basics by two people, both who thought the system worked on paper (and it seemed to make sense; I didn't get a lot of clarification questions). Still, in trying it out in free-form, I've found some kinks to work out. Just like I had with Draconus' potential-instant-casting dice-roll-chance mana system, I'm a little worried that someone will see this, go "It isn't a prep system!", and automatically assume it unfair regardless of how I try to work it out.
If you have gotten this far in my post, I thank you for bearing with me and reading through all of this. If you'd like to try to help me fix my kinks or just want to give your input on the system, then I have some questions for you:
You're more than welcome to post additional insights, input, and comments and questions for us to discuss/answer. Again, if you're up to the task of helping me brainstorm and work this system out, I thank you for putting in the time and effort to aid me.
*Simplified, lesser explanation towards the end of the page
Y'see, in zOMG, GaiaOnline's MMO (and where Johann comes from), they use weapons in the form of magical rings. These rings can be summoned in four different forms-- each one more powerful than the last, provided you've channeled enough energy to use each form. You get this energy from using a ring and from being hit by foes' attacks.
And I'm trying to put this into a free-form system, staying true to zOMG's system while still being fair, but I'm hitting some... snags. Would someone like to try to help me work my kinks and concerns out?
Overview of what I'm trying to accomplish
If so, let's see if I can make this make as much sense as possible to zOMG players and non-players alike:
In zOMG, there's four stages of a ring's power, called "Rage Ranks" 1-4. 1 is a basic form, 2 is slightly more powerful, 3 is more powerful than 2, and 4 is the ultimate power a ring can use. If these were preps, they'd probably look like this:
Rank 1: 1 prep (all RR1 rings are instant-cast)
Rank 2: 2-3 preps
Rank 3: 4-5 preps
Rank 4: 6-7 preps
But what I've got is... well, not quite that.
What I've got instead is a numerical counter, split into 4 parts. Here's how I think it'll work on paper/in theory.
The Rank Counter
In my playing the game, I've gotten a rough estimate that it takes 32 "ticks" to get from Rank 1 to Rank 4, meaning a player either needs to use their ring at Rank 1 thirty-two times w/o somehow being hit back, be hit by an enemy thirty-two times w/o hitting back, or a mix of the two (like one normally sees in game play). As a result, I made a counter of sorts to emulate this in free-form. It has a range of 0-32, with the ranks being split into 8 points each (32/4 = 8 ). The counter gets 1 point added to it per hit and per ring used.
So for example, Johann's just gotten into a fight. The counter is at 0. He uses a ring.
That's 1 point of 32 total points
Next round, the enemy is hit but manages to kick him in the shin. Johann's hit by the kick(1), but let's say he manages to use the ring again(1).
That's 2 points (one from the hit, one from the ring) plus the previous single point; 3 points out of 32.
... and so on and so forth. The counter accumulates points and channels more and more power into the rings during their use. To try to balance this, if Johann uses a ring beyond Rank 1, his counter drops to 0 or 1; 0 if the combat finishes at that post, 1 if it continues after that post. This simulates the fact that in zOMG, the Rank meter recycles a small amount energy after a ring has been used regardless of what Rank it was used at.
Displaying The Counter & Transitions Between Ranks
Like [#/#] prep displays in posts, I want to make a display for this system. I'm just not sure how to cleanly show both what number the counter is currently at, whether it's changing ranks or not, and how many points have been accumulated during a post. I have a rough idea of some of this.
Point Accumulation
What I've gotten this far is that a (1) can be added after every sentence that shows Johann's counter has just gotten a point added to it. Only a single point is gained per hit or ring use, but nonetheless it still means I could get large numbers gathered if multiple foes were targeting my character AND rings were being used. While I'm not too worried about how many points could be added (we'll get to that in a bit), I am worried about the cleanliness. Would it be bothersome to see (1)'s in the post, regardless of how many are there?
If so, I need to figure out a better way to tally up the points while indicating this to other players so it stays fair. They can keep track of the counter just like I am.
Rank Transition
So the more points gathered in the counter, the higher a rank Johann can use. But how do I best display this in brackets?
At first I had a [(current number)+(Tallied numbers) = Current Number of 32], but I felt that this was not only long, but also didn't blatantly indicate what Rank Johann is currently at and might be able to move onto.
So then I came up with this:
[RR1, #/8] ---> if it goes beyond 8, [RR2, #/16] ---->if it goes beyond 16, [RR3, #/24] ----> if it goes beyond 24, [RR4, #/32]
It shows where Johann is currently and potentially where he could go next. If he gets 8/8 (right at the end of RR1), and it bumps up to 9, I could display [RR2, 9/16] in the post where the transition happens.
Okay, so if that works, how can I put the two together?
This brings on a whole new set of questions. Is it unfair to show the current counter, but not the tallies in the brackets even if they're marked in the post itself? If so, how do I cleanly show the two displays together in brackets without having a mile long [Display]?
How To Keep This Fair
I've already decided that there's a potential for a lot of points to be gained in a single post, depending on the number of times a hit is taken and the use of a ring. I'm banking on a couple of things I can only definitively find out through RP, however:
First, Johann can only use one ring per post, even though he has 2 on his person. One is an active ring and thus uses the counter, and one gives a passive ability and has no bearing on the counter. If he gained more "active" rings later on, it wouldn't matter-- he could still only use one ring per post. The counter also works for all rings-- if he had a Rank of 2-3 and had only been using a certain ring until then, he could still switch to another ring and use its Rank 2-3. However, Johann only has one active ring, and I always plan for him to only have one, so this key point becomes somewhat moot.
Secondly, it usually becomes harder to focus and use weapons when one is getting the ever-loving-crap beaten out of them. I should hope that my taking realistic hits in combat that diminish my character's ability to instant-cast the rings effectively makes this even fairer. If Johann's taking hits from multiple foes or a single foe getting in a lot of hits in one go, points are accumulating, but it doesn't mean Johann can utilize them if he's taking quite a beating.
In Closing
I've already run the basics by two people, both who thought the system worked on paper (and it seemed to make sense; I didn't get a lot of clarification questions). Still, in trying it out in free-form, I've found some kinks to work out. Just like I had with Draconus' potential-instant-casting dice-roll-chance mana system, I'm a little worried that someone will see this, go "It isn't a prep system!", and automatically assume it unfair regardless of how I try to work it out.
If you have gotten this far in my post, I thank you for bearing with me and reading through all of this. If you'd like to try to help me fix my kinks or just want to give your input on the system, then I have some questions for you:
- Despite my long-winded explanation, does this make sense "on paper"?
- Does this system seem fair "on paper"?
- If this system doesn't seem fair but makes sense, is there a way to make it fair?
- Alternatively, if it seems fair but doesn't make sense, how can I make it more understandable?
- How could I best display transitioning ranks in my posts?
And how can I best show when another tick is added to the counter in my post and the display?
You're more than welcome to post additional insights, input, and comments and questions for us to discuss/answer. Again, if you're up to the task of helping me brainstorm and work this system out, I thank you for putting in the time and effort to aid me.
Okay so yes, I'm breakin' the rules and bumping my own topic before it even gets to page 2.
... but I figured that maybe my post in the first place was too "omg in our faces" and ramble-y, like I tend to do.
So here: http://www.rprepository.com/c/darkgunman/20184
Near the bottom of the page is what I hope a less wordy, cleaner explanation for what I'm going for. It even has an example post at the end. So yes, if you got tired of reading the starting topic, maybe this will be easier on the eyes instead? I really would love and appreciate any sort of input, really!
... but I figured that maybe my post in the first place was too "omg in our faces" and ramble-y, like I tend to do.
So here: http://www.rprepository.com/c/darkgunman/20184
Near the bottom of the page is what I hope a less wordy, cleaner explanation for what I'm going for. It even has an example post at the end. So yes, if you got tired of reading the starting topic, maybe this will be easier on the eyes instead? I really would love and appreciate any sort of input, really!
Yes. That was much simpler. I actually found myself unable to completely read the first post which shocked the beejesus out of me cause I can read some long posts. Now for my input type stuffs. In all honesty you have made my mind stop wondering as I too wondered how the rings would work in a free form thing. The only input I could offer at this moment is that instead of a tick per hit, you could possibly also incorporate dice into the factor by rolling die based on what RR your in. Such as with RR1 simply roll 1D8 whenever a hit occurs to see how much of a boost the hit gives. It could make it where the RR would increase faster but at the same time, you'd also be adding a slight element of suspense because you could be in that situation where you need RR2 to aid you and your three points away. Roll a die. Will you get it then or are you SOL? Makes things a bit more unpredictable. That's just my opinion though but aside from that, I like the concept.
I tried that out a test, and I need to know something "key" in your suggestion:
Do I roll dice for every hit and ring usage I do, or just collectively?
For example, Johann in a single post is struck twice and manages to use a ring one time.
Do I roll ONE 1d#, or do I roll one for all three factors (the 2 hits and 1 ring)?
Regardless, this doesn't quite look so good.
If I do one dice roll collectively, it takes away the fact that the meter gains energy EVERY TIME a hit is taken or a ring is used.
If I do it separately, I get something like this:
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
(Yes, I got 6 three times in a row
)
That's 18+whatever I've already got in the meter. If it's 18+0, I'm already in RR3 territory-- that's a mini-gun, by the way. Sure I won't get three numbers in a row every time, but let's say I have to roll 4 times, and each one's a high number. That's veering off into "Over-Powered-too-soon" territory w/o the effort or work to get to RR3 or 4.
I dunno, Lance-- it's a nice suggestion in theory, but I'm not sure if it'd work in this case either way. I may just stick to 1 point per hit & ring use.
Do I roll dice for every hit and ring usage I do, or just collectively?
For example, Johann in a single post is struck twice and manages to use a ring one time.
Do I roll ONE 1d#, or do I roll one for all three factors (the 2 hits and 1 ring)?
Regardless, this doesn't quite look so good.
If I do one dice roll collectively, it takes away the fact that the meter gains energy EVERY TIME a hit is taken or a ring is used.
If I do it separately, I get something like this:
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
Johann Malagrav rolls 1d8 & gets 6.
(Yes, I got 6 three times in a row
)That's 18+whatever I've already got in the meter. If it's 18+0, I'm already in RR3 territory-- that's a mini-gun, by the way. Sure I won't get three numbers in a row every time, but let's say I have to roll 4 times, and each one's a high number. That's veering off into "Over-Powered-too-soon" territory w/o the effort or work to get to RR3 or 4.
I dunno, Lance-- it's a nice suggestion in theory, but I'm not sure if it'd work in this case either way. I may just stick to 1 point per hit & ring use.
I was thinking something like the per hit thing but at the same time I was also thinking along the lines of one attack per turn type of thing. But like I said it was just my opinion.
Nah, nah, I know it's your opinion! And I thank you for sharing it. I was just trying to work through it logically. Johann himself would only use a ring once per turn anyway, but I can't always assume that he'll only be hit once per turn himself, which is where the build up really starts. He might use his ring (1 point) or not at all (0 points) in a post, but how many hits he might take in a post totally depends on whatever the other fighter(s) does.
And I thank you for sharing it. I was just trying to work through it logically. Johann himself would only use a ring once per turn anyway, but I can't always assume that he'll only be hit once per turn himself, which is where the build up really starts. He might use his ring (1 point) or not at all (0 points) in a post, but how many hits he might take in a post totally depends on whatever the other fighter(s) does.
Which also factor in Johann's ability to dodge. As I seriously doubt he'd willingly get hit just to charge the ring. I mean that's like me saying 'Here. Punch me in the face so I can suddenly get stronger and pound the [radio edit] out of you!' Which I probally would but it wouldn't necessarily make me stronger annnnnddddd....I'm getting off subject. But yeah. Heh.
Oh goodness, that'd be silly. 
But I do let my characters take hits.
But his ability to dodge isn't much of a factor. One way or another, someone's gonna get hits on him in a fight, which is what counts here.
Alright, so I've decided to just keep it with a 1 point per hit and/or ring use, but I'm still wondering how to make note of that in my posts. Not sure how people would feel about (1)'s dotting my posts. Maybe I could bold a key word in each part? Stick in a separate bracket marking off how many points got racked up, if any?
But I do let my characters take hits.But his ability to dodge isn't much of a factor. One way or another, someone's gonna get hits on him in a fight, which is what counts here.
Alright, so I've decided to just keep it with a 1 point per hit and/or ring use, but I'm still wondering how to make note of that in my posts. Not sure how people would feel about (1)'s dotting my posts. Maybe I could bold a key word in each part? Stick in a separate bracket marking off how many points got racked up, if any?
Yeah. That'd be good. Something like those prep marks people use on Furc. The whole [x/x] thing. Honestly if you wanna stick with how you got it, it could work fine that way. Umm...lemme see. [1/8] or maybe do it like [1:1/8] to show your still on RR one and change the first 1 as you advance levels so [2:1/8], [3:1/8] and so forth?
I'm not quite following you here, Lance.
Well. The ring has 4 stages per say. So a mark like [2:5/8] would tell people you have 5 out of 8 of your charges, ticks, whatever you want to call them, to be fully charged at the second level. The sad thing is I'm explaining this to you and I think I'm confusing myself. Heh.
Oh, no no.
That's not what I'm trying to figure out. I've got THAT settled.
What I mean is in individual posts, how do I indicate what makes the meter increase WITHIN my post cleanly? I don't want people thinking I'm somehow cheating by just tacking on a [2 points][RR#, #/#], [1 point][RR#, #/#], whatever at the end of my post.
So like, for example:
Foe von Opponent kicks at Johann's knee!
Johann is hit, and his legs buckle beneath him(1)! As he sinks to his knees, he charges up his ring and fires the single-shot pistol at Foe's foot(1)! [RR1, 2/8]
See those (1)'s? That's what I currently have as "tick markers". I'm not sure if that's too unclean (especially if a post somehow-- God forbid-- gets clogged with them). I'm not even really sure if I should even bother with them. Would people trust me enough not to randomly tack on points or keep track of my own stuff? I mean, I should hope so, but y'never know.
Questions, questions...
That's not what I'm trying to figure out. I've got THAT settled.
What I mean is in individual posts, how do I indicate what makes the meter increase WITHIN my post cleanly? I don't want people thinking I'm somehow cheating by just tacking on a [2 points][RR#, #/#], [1 point][RR#, #/#], whatever at the end of my post.
So like, for example:
Foe von Opponent kicks at Johann's knee!
Johann is hit, and his legs buckle beneath him(1)! As he sinks to his knees, he charges up his ring and fires the single-shot pistol at Foe's foot(1)! [RR1, 2/8]
See those (1)'s? That's what I currently have as "tick markers". I'm not sure if that's too unclean (especially if a post somehow-- God forbid-- gets clogged with them). I'm not even really sure if I should even bother with them. Would people trust me enough not to randomly tack on points or keep track of my own stuff? I mean, I should hope so, but y'never know.
Questions, questions...
Oh ok. I get what your wondering now. Well then...hmm... Well the only thing I can think of right off to possibly make it neater is to simply leave them out and point out in OOC at your first post that's what's gonna be happening. And if they really wanna be nit picky, they'll know what's going on too so they can keep track on their own.
You are on: Forums » RP Discussion » Combat System Input Wanted
Moderators: Mina, Keke, Cass, Auberon, Claine, Ilmarinen, Ben, Darth_Angelus