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Try writing out your moves description, shot amount, mana cost, and dmg % and I'll show you what I mean.
When you're done with working out all the kinks please condense it so I can understand it.
we have one problem remaining. which is: the tank meta.. the way it works there are basically only 3 types of viable characters. 1. The tank, stacking EVERYTHING in speed and hp. who needs defence when the enemy has a 1% chance of hitting and you have the hp to survive it anyway, plus there are buff spells anyway.
2. super accurate glass cannon, physical or magical
3. aoe speed mage
2. super accurate glass cannon, physical or magical
3. aoe speed mage
Just one thing: Is the natural mp recovery the same as hp? Or is there none. Quite important when tinkering with costs...
Which is why there is a difference in the stat costs. If you decide im going to be strong and hack things to pieces you aren't going to be to defensive. But a tank can last through a lot, give it heal spells and low cost mana moves and it'll last a long time. There is more variety then you think. The deciding factor is your moves. Flash for instance would put Xero here on better footing with glass cannons, while the miasma lets him go against tanks in the fights of attrition. The moves you make are the real deciding factor here, not stats they just provide the edge.
about the mp recovery?
well.. I don't know.. how do we implement a proper fighter when skills are so important? ...
Plus, versitilty goes over niche if we don't buff the niche characters.
Plus, versitilty goes over niche if we don't buff the niche characters.
Sorry to be annoying but I need to clear this up:
The stats are
Health: 1 point spent = 10 HP
Mana: 1 point spent = 10 MP
Attackpower: 1.1 points spent = 1 Atk
Magicpower: 1.1 points spent = 1 Mpower
Defense: 1.2 points spent = 1 Def
MagicResist: 1.2 points spent = 1 MR
Speed: 2 points spent = 1 speed
Accuracy: 2 points spent = 1 Acc
Specialpoints?: 10 points spent = 1 SP
Hitchance = (Accuracy - Defence)/100 - AoE for each enemy seperate, mulitple hits on one enemy possible, with balancing needed
Critchance = ((Accuracy - Defence)/100)^2 - crit does 2xdamage
Damage = (Attack-Defence)*balancing factor of the skill
To sum it up - we should set a guideline on what a skill/attack costs , considering raw damage and any side effects, aka croud control, AoE or single target.
One last thing: How do we create a viable non-mage with this setup? He can't have many skills, which are easily countered - do we just pump up the raw damage, crit chance and accuracy via weapon? Plus, a non-mage won't really have an 'ultimate'
The stats are
Health: 1 point spent = 10 HP
Mana: 1 point spent = 10 MP
Attackpower: 1.1 points spent = 1 Atk
Magicpower: 1.1 points spent = 1 Mpower
Defense: 1.2 points spent = 1 Def
MagicResist: 1.2 points spent = 1 MR
Speed: 2 points spent = 1 speed
Accuracy: 2 points spent = 1 Acc
Specialpoints?: 10 points spent = 1 SP
Hitchance = (Accuracy - Defence)/100 - AoE for each enemy seperate, mulitple hits on one enemy possible, with balancing needed
Critchance = ((Accuracy - Defence)/100)^2 - crit does 2xdamage
Damage = (Attack-Defence)*balancing factor of the skill
To sum it up - we should set a guideline on what a skill/attack costs , considering raw damage and any side effects, aka croud control, AoE or single target.
One last thing: How do we create a viable non-mage with this setup? He can't have many skills, which are easily countered - do we just pump up the raw damage, crit chance and accuracy via weapon? Plus, a non-mage won't really have an 'ultimate'
It is
Acc-enemy spd for hit chance.
Crit is seperate and is a second roll. Any number below your luck is a crit
Acc-enemy spd for hit chance.
Crit is seperate and is a second roll. Any number below your luck is a crit
Sorry im on phone here.
As for moves i am going through them all before hand to weed out anything op.
As for moves i am going through them all before hand to weed out anything op.
Ok so
It is Acc-enemy spd and then anything at or below that number is a hit.
Crit is based on luck, a roll of 100 and any number below your lucks stat is a crit.
If you are doing multiple hits there is a third roll done before the first two to see how many hits, the. Proceed with hit chance and crit chance rolls for each hit.
If the move is an AOE you just perform rolls for every individual it would hit.
As for fighters and mages it's not so hard to make a fighter who can compete with a Mage. Xero is a perfect example of a mix. Both physical and magical moves, and a warp to close in that holds restrictions to itself. Like I said earlier it's all about how you form your moves that restrict you.
As these are people who are more in tune with mana and magic it is not common in the least that they do not use such things that are to their benefit, be it just all around buffs to increase there speed or power, or warps to get them in close. Add in equipment and it becomes Viable. If you need a standard Xero is a good example. The stronger moves are costly, but the weaker ones are cheap. The multi hit moves have a slightly higher cost then the cheap ones cause they have the potential to hit for quite a bit, but also a chance to completely fail and do near none.
As I said I will be weeding through everyone's moves before hand to see if anything needs tweaks. As has probably already guessed this system is loosely based on the FF turn based battle system, though far more limited with only getting ten moves and one ultimate.
As to Mage ultimates, personal/unique spells wouldn't be considered odd. Mana is free flow and it is the user that forms it, so I'm not expecting to see the same attack ideas pop up. Monsters are going to house unique attacks as well, though in small amounts, ranging from around 1-4 different attacks, bosses passing into the 5 plus. Of course there have to be those godly creatures you come across that just annoy you with a thousand different moves... Gotta have one... But the majority won't be like that. It is human vs monster most times but even human vs human the Verask are suppose to be above a regular human, but against another Verask they are pretty even if around the same level.
And although spd seems op its cost leaves everything else lacking if you focus solely on spd. One hit and you're done. I've played enough wow to know a 5% chance of a hit is more then enough if you can last long enough. Also a full glass cannon, high atk/magatk with high spd is awesome and all but one hit its done. You're playing Russian roulette, one bullet five chambers kind of deal. With so many fights eventually someone is going to hit you. This setting honestly does not favour glass cannons but all rounders and tanks, that is if they are alone, but the setting is for all five to work together. Obviously there are going to be split ups but the majority will be together or with someone else.
If that still doesn't quench your thirst in thinking it isn't so op this is the first encounter mob to give an idea of how badly it's needed. We got five people in one team, so a level ten enemy will have far more hp and mana then us.
Zoosk:
A Winged bird, theorized to be related to dragons. With grey webbing for wings, and thick putrid grey skin covering it's body this terror of the skies has been known to snatch elephants whole. They prefer to sleep in caverns, mine tunnels, and other such places. Many trains have been damaged thanks to these things sleeping in underground tracks. With a maw filled with rows upon rows of teeth it is evident this creature is a carnivore, and it loves using its forked, spike tipped tail to skewer prey before roasting it with its fire breath. The fur along its back crackles as it readies its tail to fire off lightning magic, worthy of being called the storm of the Terran skies. Height: 12 feet wing span: 24 feet
Hp 530 AP 32 MP 41
Mana 350 def 26 Mdef 34
Lck 3 Acc 35 Spd 27
Unlike us they aren't restricted by the starting stats and are to what we feel is a challenge to us at the time, or appropriate. Like a regular wolf wouldn't have near those stats, since this thing is obviously a beginner boss mob. Glass cannon would get killed pretty quickly by this and a tank wouldn't be able to kill it fast enough before it let out a ton of high end attacks. An all rounder wouldn't do much good either since it would get hit to hard and not deal enough damage. Focus is group combat not solo.
It is Acc-enemy spd and then anything at or below that number is a hit.
Crit is based on luck, a roll of 100 and any number below your lucks stat is a crit.
If you are doing multiple hits there is a third roll done before the first two to see how many hits, the. Proceed with hit chance and crit chance rolls for each hit.
If the move is an AOE you just perform rolls for every individual it would hit.
As for fighters and mages it's not so hard to make a fighter who can compete with a Mage. Xero is a perfect example of a mix. Both physical and magical moves, and a warp to close in that holds restrictions to itself. Like I said earlier it's all about how you form your moves that restrict you.
As these are people who are more in tune with mana and magic it is not common in the least that they do not use such things that are to their benefit, be it just all around buffs to increase there speed or power, or warps to get them in close. Add in equipment and it becomes Viable. If you need a standard Xero is a good example. The stronger moves are costly, but the weaker ones are cheap. The multi hit moves have a slightly higher cost then the cheap ones cause they have the potential to hit for quite a bit, but also a chance to completely fail and do near none.
As I said I will be weeding through everyone's moves before hand to see if anything needs tweaks. As has probably already guessed this system is loosely based on the FF turn based battle system, though far more limited with only getting ten moves and one ultimate.
As to Mage ultimates, personal/unique spells wouldn't be considered odd. Mana is free flow and it is the user that forms it, so I'm not expecting to see the same attack ideas pop up. Monsters are going to house unique attacks as well, though in small amounts, ranging from around 1-4 different attacks, bosses passing into the 5 plus. Of course there have to be those godly creatures you come across that just annoy you with a thousand different moves... Gotta have one... But the majority won't be like that. It is human vs monster most times but even human vs human the Verask are suppose to be above a regular human, but against another Verask they are pretty even if around the same level.
And although spd seems op its cost leaves everything else lacking if you focus solely on spd. One hit and you're done. I've played enough wow to know a 5% chance of a hit is more then enough if you can last long enough. Also a full glass cannon, high atk/magatk with high spd is awesome and all but one hit its done. You're playing Russian roulette, one bullet five chambers kind of deal. With so many fights eventually someone is going to hit you. This setting honestly does not favour glass cannons but all rounders and tanks, that is if they are alone, but the setting is for all five to work together. Obviously there are going to be split ups but the majority will be together or with someone else.
If that still doesn't quench your thirst in thinking it isn't so op this is the first encounter mob to give an idea of how badly it's needed. We got five people in one team, so a level ten enemy will have far more hp and mana then us.
Zoosk:
A Winged bird, theorized to be related to dragons. With grey webbing for wings, and thick putrid grey skin covering it's body this terror of the skies has been known to snatch elephants whole. They prefer to sleep in caverns, mine tunnels, and other such places. Many trains have been damaged thanks to these things sleeping in underground tracks. With a maw filled with rows upon rows of teeth it is evident this creature is a carnivore, and it loves using its forked, spike tipped tail to skewer prey before roasting it with its fire breath. The fur along its back crackles as it readies its tail to fire off lightning magic, worthy of being called the storm of the Terran skies. Height: 12 feet wing span: 24 feet
Hp 530 AP 32 MP 41
Mana 350 def 26 Mdef 34
Lck 3 Acc 35 Spd 27
Unlike us they aren't restricted by the starting stats and are to what we feel is a challenge to us at the time, or appropriate. Like a regular wolf wouldn't have near those stats, since this thing is obviously a beginner boss mob. Glass cannon would get killed pretty quickly by this and a tank wouldn't be able to kill it fast enough before it let out a ton of high end attacks. An all rounder wouldn't do much good either since it would get hit to hard and not deal enough damage. Focus is group combat not solo.
That mob just proves my point. If Agility and Speed are going to cost the same (2 points for +1) , then The whole game will consist of a miss-fest since these two will be evenly maxed (making the standard hit chance 1%). One cannot even reduce one's own speed for accuracy, since you will get hit more yourself and the mobs have higher stats anyway.
So in other words we have enemies that are faster, deadlier and actually.. I think even 3 Xeros would lose big time vs the mob you sketched. (I went through it 10 times via pc simulation. Lost 10/10 times.)
And to try and cope with this flaw just by the skillset.. is hard.. maybe even outright rude.
Not to mention that there is no natural MP recovery.
P.s.
I thought of using something like super sonic wind blasts, with the nice addon that the hitchance is solely or nearly entirely on my accuracy since it is too hard to avoid.
So in other words we have enemies that are faster, deadlier and actually.. I think even 3 Xeros would lose big time vs the mob you sketched. (I went through it 10 times via pc simulation. Lost 10/10 times.)
And to try and cope with this flaw just by the skillset.. is hard.. maybe even outright rude.
Not to mention that there is no natural MP recovery.
P.s.
I thought of using something like super sonic wind blasts, with the nice addon that the hitchance is solely or nearly entirely on my accuracy since it is too hard to avoid.
Xero is just balanced. He's not a tank so he doesn't take to many hits, nor is he a complete power house, a little on the faster side but that's it so of course three of him are going to lose.
I set up a simple five man team of just a healing mage, tank, ranged, GC and Xero and it does fine. I even swapped it up for two tanks and a single heal mage , three speed mained won 6/20. This is however with the moves of everyone. If you play pokemon then you know that around 60% of the match is based on stats and 40% on move pool. Its not rude at all to give creative freedom of the moves to determine what they would be and how they cope with different scenarios.
The only solution i can think of honestly to address such is to put spd up to a cost of 3 which i believe is a little unfair to those that wish to play those speed types.
As for that ability that is perfectly fine as long as the mp price is correct, but shouldn't be something of huge power either.
The mana recovery i don't know why that wasn't added in. I noticed it missing when i initially posted and added it. I didnt check to make sure it saved, but i will add it in when i get home. It is basically % of total each turn is recovered.
I am having two buddies who do this sort of thing often look over it to pick it apart tonight.
I set up a simple five man team of just a healing mage, tank, ranged, GC and Xero and it does fine. I even swapped it up for two tanks and a single heal mage , three speed mained won 6/20. This is however with the moves of everyone. If you play pokemon then you know that around 60% of the match is based on stats and 40% on move pool. Its not rude at all to give creative freedom of the moves to determine what they would be and how they cope with different scenarios.
The only solution i can think of honestly to address such is to put spd up to a cost of 3 which i believe is a little unfair to those that wish to play those speed types.
As for that ability that is perfectly fine as long as the mp price is correct, but shouldn't be something of huge power either.
The mana recovery i don't know why that wasn't added in. I noticed it missing when i initially posted and added it. I didnt check to make sure it saved, but i will add it in when i get home. It is basically % of total each turn is recovered.
I am having two buddies who do this sort of thing often look over it to pick it apart tonight.
Xero wrote:
Xero is just balanced. He's not a tank so he doesn't take to many hits, nor is he a complete power house, a little on the faster side but that's it so of course three of him are going to lose.
I set up a simple five man team of just a healing mage, tank, ranged, GC and Xero and it does fine. I even swapped it up for two tanks and a single heal mage , three speed mained won 6/20. This is however with the moves of everyone. If you play pokemon then you know that around 60% of the match is based on stats and 40% on move pool. Its not rude at all to give creative freedom of the moves to determine what they would be and how they cope with different scenarios.
The only solution i can think of honestly to address such is to put spd up to a cost of 3 which i believe is a little unfair to those that wish to play those speed types.
As for that ability that is perfectly fine as long as the mp price is correct, but shouldn't be something of huge power either.
The mana recovery i don't know why that wasn't added in. I noticed it missing when i initially posted and added it. I didnt check to make sure it saved, but i will add it in when i get home. It is basically % of total each turn is recovered.
I am having two buddies who do this sort of thing often look over it to pick it apart tonight.
I set up a simple five man team of just a healing mage, tank, ranged, GC and Xero and it does fine. I even swapped it up for two tanks and a single heal mage , three speed mained won 6/20. This is however with the moves of everyone. If you play pokemon then you know that around 60% of the match is based on stats and 40% on move pool. Its not rude at all to give creative freedom of the moves to determine what they would be and how they cope with different scenarios.
The only solution i can think of honestly to address such is to put spd up to a cost of 3 which i believe is a little unfair to those that wish to play those speed types.
As for that ability that is perfectly fine as long as the mp price is correct, but shouldn't be something of huge power either.
The mana recovery i don't know why that wasn't added in. I noticed it missing when i initially posted and added it. I didnt check to make sure it saved, but i will add it in when i get home. It is basically % of total each turn is recovered.
I am having two buddies who do this sort of thing often look over it to pick it apart tonight.
I double dare them to tell me what they think. By the way, what is gc supposed to stand for?
was not meant to be... ^^'
I would just like to hear their opinions
Was there any particular sets you had in mind? As in roles for the characters (tank and trivia)
I would just like to hear their opinions
Was there any particular sets you had in mind? As in roles for the characters (tank and trivia)
That's fine. It just seemed to to me. Past that I am actually thankful for the constant questions since this is my first time GM'ing. Talking to my buddies I do see a lot of things and possibilities and other such things 
wanting to keep it simple but at the same time... I mean like charisma stat... Obviously the blind girl will get better treatment then Xero and such... But to make it more complicated is the question... Oh and yes. Spd is changing, though probably a stat split into spd and reflex reflex being a higher costed stat.
wanting to keep it simple but at the same time... I mean like charisma stat... Obviously the blind girl will get better treatment then Xero and such... But to make it more complicated is the question... Oh and yes. Spd is changing, though probably a stat split into spd and reflex reflex being a higher costed stat.
To add I'll be remaking the thread after. This ones gotten a little long.
Ok this is a test system. Need feed back on this.
Hp cost =1
Mana cost =1
Ap cost =1.2
Mp cost =1.2
Def cost =1.5
Mdef cost =1.5
Lck cost =2
Acc cost =2
Spd cost =2.5
Charisma cost =1.5
Spirit cost =2.2
Reflex cost
The three added are for as follows.
Reflex is taking the place of spd in the accuracy rate, so it plays the role of the evasion stat.
Spirit will determine mana recovery per turn, hence its higher cost. I am thinking of making it higher to even out those low mana quick small move builds if they are too high like this.
Charisma is a gimmick stat. It will involve rolls when dealing with NPC's or calming startled beasts, better deals on items, selling and buying. It can also get some nifty tidbits for some side stories or side adventures. Yes this is a little broken in the aspect only one person needs it to be high while in a group but once the group splits for those times rare items could pop up and you REALLY need that discount, or someone knows a shortcut around the huge demon guarding the only apparent tunnel.
There will be a +1 to every stat at every even level and a +2 to your highest stat and +1 to the second highest. If it is tied then you pick which.
This is just a test layout for stats. I haven't tested them yet but will soon.
Hp cost =1
Mana cost =1
Ap cost =1.2
Mp cost =1.2
Def cost =1.5
Mdef cost =1.5
Lck cost =2
Acc cost =2
Spd cost =2.5
Charisma cost =1.5
Spirit cost =2.2
Reflex cost
The three added are for as follows.
Reflex is taking the place of spd in the accuracy rate, so it plays the role of the evasion stat.
Spirit will determine mana recovery per turn, hence its higher cost. I am thinking of making it higher to even out those low mana quick small move builds if they are too high like this.
Charisma is a gimmick stat. It will involve rolls when dealing with NPC's or calming startled beasts, better deals on items, selling and buying. It can also get some nifty tidbits for some side stories or side adventures. Yes this is a little broken in the aspect only one person needs it to be high while in a group but once the group splits for those times rare items could pop up and you REALLY need that discount, or someone knows a shortcut around the huge demon guarding the only apparent tunnel.
There will be a +1 to every stat at every even level and a +2 to your highest stat and +1 to the second highest. If it is tied then you pick which.
This is just a test layout for stats. I haven't tested them yet but will soon.
Xero wrote:
To add I'll be remaking the thread after. This ones gotten a little long.
scaring off the newcomers already ^^
Xero wrote:
Ok this is a test system. Need feed back on this.
Hp cost =1
Mana cost =1
Ap cost =1.2
Mp cost =1.2
Def cost =1.5
Mdef cost =1.5
Lck cost =2
Acc cost =2
Spd cost =2.5
Charisma cost =1.5
Spirit cost =2.2
Reflex cost
Hp cost =1
Mana cost =1
Ap cost =1.2
Mp cost =1.2
Def cost =1.5
Mdef cost =1.5
Lck cost =2
Acc cost =2
Spd cost =2.5
Charisma cost =1.5
Spirit cost =2.2
Reflex cost
I like the idea. Kind of fixes the problem a little. Imo - I thought the formula was broken but it is a good workaround. (Still going to miss quite alot - but at least not as much. You kind of have to think about it. Rpr, from what I have deducted so far does not always come with replies on the same or even the next day, so prolonging the fights by missing too much is just boring/annoying on the whole, especially if you need more than a week for one fight.)
Xero wrote:
The three added are for as follows.
Reflex is taking the place of spd in the accuracy rate, so it plays the role of the evasion stat.
Spirit will determine mana recovery per turn, hence its higher cost. I am thinking of making it higher to even out those low mana quick small move builds if they are too high like this.
Charisma is a gimmick stat. It will involve rolls when dealing with NPC's or calming startled beasts, better deals on items, selling and buying. It can also get some nifty tidbits for some side stories or side adventures. Yes this is a little broken in the aspect only one person needs it to be high while in a group but once the group splits for those times rare items could pop up and you REALLY need that discount, or someone knows a shortcut around the huge demon guarding the only apparent tunnel.
Reflex is taking the place of spd in the accuracy rate, so it plays the role of the evasion stat.
Spirit will determine mana recovery per turn, hence its higher cost. I am thinking of making it higher to even out those low mana quick small move builds if they are too high like this.
Charisma is a gimmick stat. It will involve rolls when dealing with NPC's or calming startled beasts, better deals on items, selling and buying. It can also get some nifty tidbits for some side stories or side adventures. Yes this is a little broken in the aspect only one person needs it to be high while in a group but once the group splits for those times rare items could pop up and you REALLY need that discount, or someone knows a shortcut around the huge demon guarding the only apparent tunnel.
good idea in general. The tank build might be grumpy at it since they get no recovery in combat - but I think it is more balanced this way. Tbh the last time I played a pen&paper system it was quite simple with just a couple of stats.
That popped another question: How would you roll for lockpick or similar actions?
Xero wrote:
There will be a +1 to every stat at every even level and a +2 to your highest stat and +1 to the second highest. If it is tied then you pick which.
Good idea - especially since it promotes specialization of the balanced builds.
Another question: Did you plan on implementing some sort of rewards for stuff like training in the evening for a permanent stat boost - not by levelling up but by refining one's skills?
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