Contents:
1 - Background Info
2 - Creatures 2 Diary
3 - Creatures 3 Diary
4 - Helpful Links
5 - C2 Gene Tweaking
(If at all anyone wants to reply to this thread with any comments or something, feel free... don't worry about potentially interrupting any of the diary stuff below... if it ends up being a recurring thing, it doesn't matter if it's split up.)
I'm curious, because as far as I'm aware, no other game series has tried to do what the Creatures series did to the same extent.
So for those who don't know, the Creatures series is a trilogy (plus spin-offs) of games released in the 90s that revolves around experimenting with genetics and artificial life. You're tasked to care for (or simply observe if you prefer non-interference) a species of creatures called norns who are capable of learning. Though there are some scripted behaviours (particularly in Creatures 3), most behaviours in the game are learnt from a process of reward/punishment. A norn is hungry, they eat food, the food makes them not hungry, they learn to eat when hungry. This process is handled through simulated brain lobes with specific purposes, such as perception, prioritisation or decision making. The player can also influence the development of a creature by rewarding and punishing them for certain things. Such as punishing a creature for trying to eat a poisonous weed or rewarding them for following the mouse cursor.
Where do the genetics come in? Well each individual creature has a unique genetic code that is passed down to its offspring. This code can mutate during pregnancy (especially under certain influences such as radiation), resulting in positive and negative traits that weren't present in either parent. You could end up with a norn who never dies... or a norn with extra redundant brain lobes... or a norn who cannot walk. Admittedly, there are games nowadays that have a much more interesting system of genetics than the Creatures series, but none (that I've found) that mix that in with A-life learning.
Nowadays, it can be a struggle to get the games to work. Creatures 2 in particular requires hefty fixes just to run. Both Creatures 2 and Docking Station (a stand-alone expansion for Creatures 3) also require unofficial patches to fix glitches that are present in the games. Case in point, Creatures 2's One Hour Stupidity Syndrome, which results in norn intelligence basically ceasing to function to any useful degree after about an hour of life.
Personally, I have trouble playing the game for any long period of time due to the fact that I really hate it when a norn (or ettin) dies. Creatures 2 requires a LOT of time devoted to saving norns from drowning (unless you download an agent that adds bridges to the world), whilst my creatures in Creatures 3 have a habit of finding bacteria that contains ATP decoupler, which prevents a creature from being able to break down glucose and basically kills it in seconds. In my latest Creatures 3 playthrough, I had to tone down bacteria because there was a LOT of ATP decoupler bacteria floating around the norn terrarium, which was where I was keeping my colony of ettins, and they kept dying from it.
There have been a couple of fairly recent attempts to continue the series, with Creatures Online being developed in the early 2010s, only to get cancelled. Then the mobile game Creatures Family went into development only to be confirmed cancelled just last year for technical reasons. Both of those attempts have been by third-party dev studios, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was due to difficulties grappling with the artificial life aspect, given that the original developers had ties to academia, and even they had issues with the genomes involved.
So... does anyone on this site have any experience with this adorable but frustrating game series? I've honestly considered putting up an RP ad for a Creatures-based RP, but I've got so many ongoing RPs at the moment, I feel I need to be more picky about what ads I put up, as I don't want to start one on a gaming-based whim only to quickly lose interest in it. Plus I'm not sure what the chances of finding someone else with experience with the series are... probably low, given that it's not exactly a big-budget series with mainstream acclaim... and doesn't really have much actual 'game' to it in the first place, really. If you want to actually check the games out, they're available on GOG.
1 - Background Info
2 - Creatures 2 Diary
3 - Creatures 3 Diary
4 - Helpful Links
5 - C2 Gene Tweaking
(If at all anyone wants to reply to this thread with any comments or something, feel free... don't worry about potentially interrupting any of the diary stuff below... if it ends up being a recurring thing, it doesn't matter if it's split up.)
I'm curious, because as far as I'm aware, no other game series has tried to do what the Creatures series did to the same extent.
So for those who don't know, the Creatures series is a trilogy (plus spin-offs) of games released in the 90s that revolves around experimenting with genetics and artificial life. You're tasked to care for (or simply observe if you prefer non-interference) a species of creatures called norns who are capable of learning. Though there are some scripted behaviours (particularly in Creatures 3), most behaviours in the game are learnt from a process of reward/punishment. A norn is hungry, they eat food, the food makes them not hungry, they learn to eat when hungry. This process is handled through simulated brain lobes with specific purposes, such as perception, prioritisation or decision making. The player can also influence the development of a creature by rewarding and punishing them for certain things. Such as punishing a creature for trying to eat a poisonous weed or rewarding them for following the mouse cursor.
Where do the genetics come in? Well each individual creature has a unique genetic code that is passed down to its offspring. This code can mutate during pregnancy (especially under certain influences such as radiation), resulting in positive and negative traits that weren't present in either parent. You could end up with a norn who never dies... or a norn with extra redundant brain lobes... or a norn who cannot walk. Admittedly, there are games nowadays that have a much more interesting system of genetics than the Creatures series, but none (that I've found) that mix that in with A-life learning.
Nowadays, it can be a struggle to get the games to work. Creatures 2 in particular requires hefty fixes just to run. Both Creatures 2 and Docking Station (a stand-alone expansion for Creatures 3) also require unofficial patches to fix glitches that are present in the games. Case in point, Creatures 2's One Hour Stupidity Syndrome, which results in norn intelligence basically ceasing to function to any useful degree after about an hour of life.
Personally, I have trouble playing the game for any long period of time due to the fact that I really hate it when a norn (or ettin) dies. Creatures 2 requires a LOT of time devoted to saving norns from drowning (unless you download an agent that adds bridges to the world), whilst my creatures in Creatures 3 have a habit of finding bacteria that contains ATP decoupler, which prevents a creature from being able to break down glucose and basically kills it in seconds. In my latest Creatures 3 playthrough, I had to tone down bacteria because there was a LOT of ATP decoupler bacteria floating around the norn terrarium, which was where I was keeping my colony of ettins, and they kept dying from it.
There have been a couple of fairly recent attempts to continue the series, with Creatures Online being developed in the early 2010s, only to get cancelled. Then the mobile game Creatures Family went into development only to be confirmed cancelled just last year for technical reasons. Both of those attempts have been by third-party dev studios, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was due to difficulties grappling with the artificial life aspect, given that the original developers had ties to academia, and even they had issues with the genomes involved.
So... does anyone on this site have any experience with this adorable but frustrating game series? I've honestly considered putting up an RP ad for a Creatures-based RP, but I've got so many ongoing RPs at the moment, I feel I need to be more picky about what ads I put up, as I don't want to start one on a gaming-based whim only to quickly lose interest in it. Plus I'm not sure what the chances of finding someone else with experience with the series are... probably low, given that it's not exactly a big-budget series with mainstream acclaim... and doesn't really have much actual 'game' to it in the first place, really. If you want to actually check the games out, they're available on GOG.
Box Art!
Creatures 1:
Creatures 2:
The Albian Years (Compilation of C1 and C2):
Creatures 3:
Creatures Exodus (Compilation of C3 and Docking Station):
Creatures 2:
The Albian Years (Compilation of C1 and C2):
Creatures 3:
Creatures Exodus (Compilation of C3 and Docking Station):
I've been putting some time into Creatures 2 lately, using the recommended addons, patches and fixes from the Creatures wiki.
My current world has been running for nearly 3 hours now (barring pauses). Personality is starting to become apparent within specific norns and babies are being born! Figured I'd share my current family of norns here because it's fun to document such things, especially with a game like this.
So those are my norns!
So there's an insight into this often frustrating and heartbreaking game series... but also really interesting and fun.
If you want actual functional norns, Creatures 3 is much better... but it's too much better. To the extent where there isn't that much point interacting with the norns, as they can easily do everything by themselves. Especially modded up with all the brain fixes. Also it lacks all the science kit and neuro kit stuff, so it's harder to look into the genetic side of what's going on with a given norn.
I wouldn't recommend Creatures 2 to anyone not used to installing mods in games (nor would I recommend it to those new to the series). Creatures 3 or Creatures 1 would be better. But for a challenge, science functionality and world size, Creatures 2 wins out. Plus it has the best art style when it comes to norn sprites.
Post-Game Findings
So I found out that the Creatures 2 norn limit is stored in the registry. And turns out... it was set to 40 (hexdec 28). I'm not sure if that's an Albian Years thing or a GOG thing or if one of the agents I injected changed it (I don't recall ever grabbing anything specifically aiming for wolfling runs though, which is the only reason to have a pop limit of 40). I've since lowered it to 8 for future gameplay, as that's more manageable for a hands-on approach. Plus, too many norns means more of a chance of developing OHSS, even with the smarter breeds.
I'm also not going to be directly using the Amanora breeds again, but rather I'm going to try modding their sprites onto the Improved Canny Norns. Also means I have a reason to download other Amanora breeds, as I avoided those that weren't based on the Canny genome due to dumdumness and genetic incompatibilities.
I might do another Creatures 2 game at a later date - maybe even in the same world file. But certainly not with the same norns. I'll probably end up exporting them into a folder and safely storing them away (blame Undertale for my sentimentality toward save data).
My current world has been running for nearly 3 hours now (barring pauses). Personality is starting to become apparent within specific norns and babies are being born! Figured I'd share my current family of norns here because it's fun to document such things, especially with a game like this.
Meet my norns!
Tai
Tai was actually from my first world before it got corrupted. I exported him after I got to grips with the game to make way for the eggs and imports who followed. Sadly, they are now lost to the ether of my hard drive; but Tai still remains in digital storage, waiting for his next mission!
Tai is a Dewa Norn. A community breed based on the Canny Norn genome (a community-made genome that fixes a lot of the issues with C2 Norn intelligence - especially the dreaded One Hour Stupidity Syndrome). I did a lot of leading around Tai and rewarding him for following, so he sort of built up a bit of an obsession with me and will always come and play with the cursor whenever it's about. He's generally well-behaved, but then he hasn't had other norns around to distract him or cause mischief.
This picture is him as a wee bab.
Flower
Flower is a Floral Norn from the same creator as the Dewa Norn breed, and also a Canny Norn. Though you may not guess it from his personality. It may be the case that Floral Norns are not quite as canny as they're advertised to be. Flower is the oldest of the bunch and doesn't get on well with me because of the amount I have to keep carrying him around to actually get him to eat - an excruciating process! He's the first of my six starting norns and is hatched from an egg.
Flower isn't all that bright. He loves moving right, even when he's trying to go left. Especially when there's a wall to walk into. He also likes to 'pull' (and sometimes hit) food and refuses to eat or push food when commanded until like the fiftieth attempt. He's generally quite friendly to other norns, and I don't remember him getting particularly slappy all that much when overcrowded. Flower is very intensive to look after, as almost always when I get back to check on him, he's got a full hunger drive.
Flower is a daddy of two lil bebs, but I haven't seen him interact with his kids all that much. Mostly because he's stuck at the left edge of the volcano all the time trying to walk into it. >.<
Leigh
This is Leigh, my second-oldest norn - a Kimarhi Norn based on the Canny Norn genome. She is mummy to all but one of the 6 babies in the world. And likely a good many of the eggs queued up to be processed too! Leigh is much more sensible than Flower, but still has a few smarts issues compared to some of the other norns on this list (we'll get to why later).
Leigh occasionally needs prompting to eat, but is very obedient when told to do so, even with other norns around. So obedient in fact, that more than once she's eaten an entire tree worth of food. Of course it could perhaps be accounted for by the fact that she's almost always pregnant.
Thomas
Here's a rather sleepy-looking Thomas, my third oldest norn - an imported Improved Canny Norn with a Pixie Norn appearance. Thomas often passes under the radar due to the fact that he's pretty capable of looking after himself, which comes hand-in-hand with his breed, which seems much more capable of decision making than standard Canny Norns. He's also father of most of the current babies, and seems to be Leigh's go-to for company whenever Flower's away getting stuck in some corner somewhere.
Thomas is pretty obedient, but also social and often gets in the way when I'm trying to get the less capable norns to eat. Whether by gobbling up half the food in the area or distracting them.
Lime
Lime is a Golden Desert Norn version of the Canny Norn breed, which apparently isn't gold like the default. Goldies, as they're known in the community, live longer than other official breeds - and that likely carries over to the Canny breeds too.
I don't see much of Lime. She's well behaved, good at looking after herself and tends to keep a fairly low profile. She's imported rather than hatched (as if that actually matters, given she was imported as a newborn anyway... community norn breeds are usually either shared as eggs or individual norns, and there's no reason to use the default breeds because they dumdums).
Unfortunately, that's pretty much all I've got to say about her.
Chris
Another baby pic (because I've had a bad luck getting good pics of Chris) where he seems to be getting angry at some berries. Chris is an Improved Canny Norn with an Emerald Norn appearance. Despite his apparently wrinklier brain, Chris does occasionally have food issues. But then he does hang out with Flower a lot, so maybe he's being taught bad habits. He's another of my starting norns and another imported one.
Generally though, he behaves himself.
Helen
Helen is a Hebe breed Improved Canny Norn. She's the only norn to get sick so far, but she wasn't sick long enough for it to matter, because she was healthy again seconds after I noticed. She's also the only norn other than Leigh to have living children in the world. Who knows when it comes to eggs though (let's be honest, though, those eggs are probably mostly Leigh's).
Helen is a strong independent woman. She gets by easily and doesn't strike up a fuss. She hangs around the left side of the map a fair bit, eating ants and hitting ant hills and whatnot. Sometimes with Lime for company, sometimes with another Norn, but there are never any large groups down there, and once Leigh stopped hanging around in that area (probably to spend some time with her guys) Helen is pretty much the only common resident.
Aquamarine
Behold, the first born! At least I think... he was born in the same minute as Sneak. I'm not sure he was laid first because norns have a habit of interrupting egg growth cycles. He's the son of Leigh and Flower and is named for his turquoise torso.
Aquamarine is pretty capable.
Sneak
Wait... that's not Flower's son! Sneak was born without me noticing at first, probably because he wasn't laid with all the other eggs. Generally because Flower had got himself stuck in the corner for a while during the first batch of eggs and... well Leigh moved on. So yeah, Sneak was named because I didn't notice him until I hatched Rose, little sneaky boy that he is. His father is Thomas, as if his head didn't give that away.
I've had to help Sneak with food a couple of times at this point, but he's still better at eating than Flower or Chris.
Rose
Second from the incubator came rose. Daughter of Flower and Leigh. Female Floral Norns have a different coloured coat than the males, hence the pinkness (and the name).
Leoness
Putting aside the cameo of Sneak's confused antics (trying to eat another norn doesn't actually do anything... I'm not sure what kind of kick norns get out of trying, but the lack of success doesn't get in the way of them trying again later), this is Leoness. Daughter of Leigh and Thomas.
Paul
Check out this tired boy! He's Helen's kid. As well as Thomas's. He's still hanging out at the bottom level of the incubation area waiting to be released into the surface once his education is complete.
Stripes
The youngest baby is Stripes, child of Leigh and Thomas. She hasn't had much chance to let her personality shine through yet, but if the way she likes to hit toys is any indication, she could well be a spicy one.
TaiTai was actually from my first world before it got corrupted. I exported him after I got to grips with the game to make way for the eggs and imports who followed. Sadly, they are now lost to the ether of my hard drive; but Tai still remains in digital storage, waiting for his next mission!
Tai is a Dewa Norn. A community breed based on the Canny Norn genome (a community-made genome that fixes a lot of the issues with C2 Norn intelligence - especially the dreaded One Hour Stupidity Syndrome). I did a lot of leading around Tai and rewarding him for following, so he sort of built up a bit of an obsession with me and will always come and play with the cursor whenever it's about. He's generally well-behaved, but then he hasn't had other norns around to distract him or cause mischief.
This picture is him as a wee bab.
FlowerFlower is a Floral Norn from the same creator as the Dewa Norn breed, and also a Canny Norn. Though you may not guess it from his personality. It may be the case that Floral Norns are not quite as canny as they're advertised to be. Flower is the oldest of the bunch and doesn't get on well with me because of the amount I have to keep carrying him around to actually get him to eat - an excruciating process! He's the first of my six starting norns and is hatched from an egg.
Flower isn't all that bright. He loves moving right, even when he's trying to go left. Especially when there's a wall to walk into. He also likes to 'pull' (and sometimes hit) food and refuses to eat or push food when commanded until like the fiftieth attempt. He's generally quite friendly to other norns, and I don't remember him getting particularly slappy all that much when overcrowded. Flower is very intensive to look after, as almost always when I get back to check on him, he's got a full hunger drive.
Flower is a daddy of two lil bebs, but I haven't seen him interact with his kids all that much. Mostly because he's stuck at the left edge of the volcano all the time trying to walk into it. >.<
LeighThis is Leigh, my second-oldest norn - a Kimarhi Norn based on the Canny Norn genome. She is mummy to all but one of the 6 babies in the world. And likely a good many of the eggs queued up to be processed too! Leigh is much more sensible than Flower, but still has a few smarts issues compared to some of the other norns on this list (we'll get to why later).
Leigh occasionally needs prompting to eat, but is very obedient when told to do so, even with other norns around. So obedient in fact, that more than once she's eaten an entire tree worth of food. Of course it could perhaps be accounted for by the fact that she's almost always pregnant.
ThomasHere's a rather sleepy-looking Thomas, my third oldest norn - an imported Improved Canny Norn with a Pixie Norn appearance. Thomas often passes under the radar due to the fact that he's pretty capable of looking after himself, which comes hand-in-hand with his breed, which seems much more capable of decision making than standard Canny Norns. He's also father of most of the current babies, and seems to be Leigh's go-to for company whenever Flower's away getting stuck in some corner somewhere.
Thomas is pretty obedient, but also social and often gets in the way when I'm trying to get the less capable norns to eat. Whether by gobbling up half the food in the area or distracting them.
LimeLime is a Golden Desert Norn version of the Canny Norn breed, which apparently isn't gold like the default. Goldies, as they're known in the community, live longer than other official breeds - and that likely carries over to the Canny breeds too.
I don't see much of Lime. She's well behaved, good at looking after herself and tends to keep a fairly low profile. She's imported rather than hatched (as if that actually matters, given she was imported as a newborn anyway... community norn breeds are usually either shared as eggs or individual norns, and there's no reason to use the default breeds because they dumdums).
Unfortunately, that's pretty much all I've got to say about her.
ChrisAnother baby pic (because I've had a bad luck getting good pics of Chris) where he seems to be getting angry at some berries. Chris is an Improved Canny Norn with an Emerald Norn appearance. Despite his apparently wrinklier brain, Chris does occasionally have food issues. But then he does hang out with Flower a lot, so maybe he's being taught bad habits. He's another of my starting norns and another imported one.
Generally though, he behaves himself.
HelenHelen is a Hebe breed Improved Canny Norn. She's the only norn to get sick so far, but she wasn't sick long enough for it to matter, because she was healthy again seconds after I noticed. She's also the only norn other than Leigh to have living children in the world. Who knows when it comes to eggs though (let's be honest, though, those eggs are probably mostly Leigh's).
Helen is a strong independent woman. She gets by easily and doesn't strike up a fuss. She hangs around the left side of the map a fair bit, eating ants and hitting ant hills and whatnot. Sometimes with Lime for company, sometimes with another Norn, but there are never any large groups down there, and once Leigh stopped hanging around in that area (probably to spend some time with her guys) Helen is pretty much the only common resident.
AquamarineBehold, the first born! At least I think... he was born in the same minute as Sneak. I'm not sure he was laid first because norns have a habit of interrupting egg growth cycles. He's the son of Leigh and Flower and is named for his turquoise torso.
Aquamarine is pretty capable.
SneakWait... that's not Flower's son! Sneak was born without me noticing at first, probably because he wasn't laid with all the other eggs. Generally because Flower had got himself stuck in the corner for a while during the first batch of eggs and... well Leigh moved on. So yeah, Sneak was named because I didn't notice him until I hatched Rose, little sneaky boy that he is. His father is Thomas, as if his head didn't give that away.
I've had to help Sneak with food a couple of times at this point, but he's still better at eating than Flower or Chris.
RoseSecond from the incubator came rose. Daughter of Flower and Leigh. Female Floral Norns have a different coloured coat than the males, hence the pinkness (and the name).
LeonessPutting aside the cameo of Sneak's confused antics (trying to eat another norn doesn't actually do anything... I'm not sure what kind of kick norns get out of trying, but the lack of success doesn't get in the way of them trying again later), this is Leoness. Daughter of Leigh and Thomas.
PaulCheck out this tired boy! He's Helen's kid. As well as Thomas's. He's still hanging out at the bottom level of the incubation area waiting to be released into the surface once his education is complete.
StripesThe youngest baby is Stripes, child of Leigh and Thomas. She hasn't had much chance to let her personality shine through yet, but if the way she likes to hit toys is any indication, she could well be a spicy one.
So those are my norns!
EDIT: More stuff before I turn in for the night!
So I played a little more since that earlier diary thing I wrote...
Here's what's happened since:
Flower
Here's a rare picture of Flower actually eating!
Unfortunately, it was the last time he actually ate anything. I keep trying to get him to eat, and now he's taken to just staring at the food.
After looking using the in-game tools, it seems his decision making over food is totally broken. I tell him to eat and his decision to eat does not increase.
The only time it does increase is when he sees another norn (surprise surprise); of course, he's not trying to eat the food. Maybe he's a cannibal or something (that's not actually a mechanic in the game tho). I don't predict his future ending with anything other than starvation, sadly.
This does look like some form of the dreaded OHSS. Which is odd, given it shouldn't occur in Canny Norns.
Aquamarine
Aquamarine has started showing a reluctance to eat too, just like his dad. In fact here's a picture of Aquamarine hanging out in his dad's favourite spot:
For a while, that right corner (i.e. the left side of the volcano) has become a magnet for norns, though I've since tried to separate them out a bit. Which is getting harder to do as the population explodes:
Meanwhile... new babies!
Bleu
I forgot to get an image of Bleu, but he basically looks identical to Flower. So it's obvious who his father is. let's hope he doesn't end too much like him! Bleu's mother is Leigh, as per usual. I mean at least when Flower's days are done, he'll have a lot of offspring as his legacy!
Memory
Here's Memory floating up to the heavens. Sadly, she was born stillborn. Another Leigh and Flower kid, too. This sort of thing happens, unfortunately. Usually caused by a mutation that prevents something important from functioning. She also doesn't have a tail.
Petal
On a brighter note, here he have Petal. Another Leigh and Flower kid. Think she looks exhausted? Well that's what happens when you decide to hang around in the lower learning room too much. That learning computer is going to keep you awake, as is the patrolling doozer, even when it isn't teaching nouns.
Sepia
Sepia's wandered off on her own here and gotten herself tired. I'm not quite sure how she got here given my focus has been on Flower at the time of the photo (and Sparkle, but we'll get to her later). She may not be a Leigh kid, but she's still Thomas's child, so at least one of the big three parents is still involved. The mother is Lime.
Gris
Thomas and Lime didn't stop at one. I haven't given Gris as much attention as most babies due to the Flower conundrum, so she ended up using a teleporter when I wasn't looking and got herself stuck in the splicing lab. Don't worry though, I did airlift her out to safety!
Shock
Shock got his name from the fact that I thought I'd reached the limit on norns, but apparently he was born anyway. Helen and Thomas's second child together. Shock looks very happy in this picture. That's more than you can say about the norn next to him!
Sparkle
Poor, poor Sparkle. She appears to have some sort of unfortunately terminal brain damage from a birth defect. None of the neurons in her brain are firing (though she's somehow still able to learn words and respond to my questions). Leoness and Paul are the parents and it might be the result of the standard Canny Norn and the Improved Canny Norn brains conflicting (they have different brain chemistry so sometimes there's defects).
The best I can do for her is put her somewhere comfortable and wait for the inevitable.
This is what her brain is doing:
As you can see... nothing. Her decisions are equally void.
Here's what's happened since:
Flower
Here's a rare picture of Flower actually eating!
Unfortunately, it was the last time he actually ate anything. I keep trying to get him to eat, and now he's taken to just staring at the food.
After looking using the in-game tools, it seems his decision making over food is totally broken. I tell him to eat and his decision to eat does not increase.
The only time it does increase is when he sees another norn (surprise surprise); of course, he's not trying to eat the food. Maybe he's a cannibal or something (that's not actually a mechanic in the game tho). I don't predict his future ending with anything other than starvation, sadly.
This does look like some form of the dreaded OHSS. Which is odd, given it shouldn't occur in Canny Norns.
Aquamarine
Aquamarine has started showing a reluctance to eat too, just like his dad. In fact here's a picture of Aquamarine hanging out in his dad's favourite spot:
For a while, that right corner (i.e. the left side of the volcano) has become a magnet for norns, though I've since tried to separate them out a bit. Which is getting harder to do as the population explodes:
Meanwhile... new babies!
Bleu
I forgot to get an image of Bleu, but he basically looks identical to Flower. So it's obvious who his father is. let's hope he doesn't end too much like him! Bleu's mother is Leigh, as per usual. I mean at least when Flower's days are done, he'll have a lot of offspring as his legacy!
MemoryHere's Memory floating up to the heavens. Sadly, she was born stillborn. Another Leigh and Flower kid, too. This sort of thing happens, unfortunately. Usually caused by a mutation that prevents something important from functioning. She also doesn't have a tail.
PetalOn a brighter note, here he have Petal. Another Leigh and Flower kid. Think she looks exhausted? Well that's what happens when you decide to hang around in the lower learning room too much. That learning computer is going to keep you awake, as is the patrolling doozer, even when it isn't teaching nouns.
SepiaSepia's wandered off on her own here and gotten herself tired. I'm not quite sure how she got here given my focus has been on Flower at the time of the photo (and Sparkle, but we'll get to her later). She may not be a Leigh kid, but she's still Thomas's child, so at least one of the big three parents is still involved. The mother is Lime.
GrisThomas and Lime didn't stop at one. I haven't given Gris as much attention as most babies due to the Flower conundrum, so she ended up using a teleporter when I wasn't looking and got herself stuck in the splicing lab. Don't worry though, I did airlift her out to safety!
ShockShock got his name from the fact that I thought I'd reached the limit on norns, but apparently he was born anyway. Helen and Thomas's second child together. Shock looks very happy in this picture. That's more than you can say about the norn next to him!
SparklePoor, poor Sparkle. She appears to have some sort of unfortunately terminal brain damage from a birth defect. None of the neurons in her brain are firing (though she's somehow still able to learn words and respond to my questions). Leoness and Paul are the parents and it might be the result of the standard Canny Norn and the Improved Canny Norn brains conflicting (they have different brain chemistry so sometimes there's defects).
The best I can do for her is put her somewhere comfortable and wait for the inevitable.
This is what her brain is doing:
As you can see... nothing. Her decisions are equally void.
So there's an insight into this often frustrating and heartbreaking game series... but also really interesting and fun.
If you want actual functional norns, Creatures 3 is much better... but it's too much better. To the extent where there isn't that much point interacting with the norns, as they can easily do everything by themselves. Especially modded up with all the brain fixes. Also it lacks all the science kit and neuro kit stuff, so it's harder to look into the genetic side of what's going on with a given norn.
I wouldn't recommend Creatures 2 to anyone not used to installing mods in games (nor would I recommend it to those new to the series). Creatures 3 or Creatures 1 would be better. But for a challenge, science functionality and world size, Creatures 2 wins out. Plus it has the best art style when it comes to norn sprites.
Post-Game Findings
So I found out that the Creatures 2 norn limit is stored in the registry. And turns out... it was set to 40 (hexdec 28). I'm not sure if that's an Albian Years thing or a GOG thing or if one of the agents I injected changed it (I don't recall ever grabbing anything specifically aiming for wolfling runs though, which is the only reason to have a pop limit of 40). I've since lowered it to 8 for future gameplay, as that's more manageable for a hands-on approach. Plus, too many norns means more of a chance of developing OHSS, even with the smarter breeds.
I'm also not going to be directly using the Amanora breeds again, but rather I'm going to try modding their sprites onto the Improved Canny Norns. Also means I have a reason to download other Amanora breeds, as I avoided those that weren't based on the Canny genome due to dumdumness and genetic incompatibilities.
I might do another Creatures 2 game at a later date - maybe even in the same world file. But certainly not with the same norns. I'll probably end up exporting them into a folder and safely storing them away (blame Undertale for my sentimentality toward save data).
I'll dedicate this post to showing off some Creatures 3.
So I logged back in for a moment after updating some bootstrap files to get Docking Station to use Creatures 3 event music (Docking Station's suuuucks... heck the death music in DS is the same music as one of the Capillata corridor music tracks and the birth music also plays in the Norn Meso, with a very similar track that plays in the Comms room) to inject the altered scripts into the world and... look at this warm welcome I arrived to!
PART 1
I've started up a new world for this purpose, using all the recommended stuff from the Creatures wiki (that's creatures.wiki, not the Fandom one, by the way). This world was started via the GOG Docking Station launcher with the docking station attached to the mothership.
The premise of this world is to attempt to mirror Creatures 2's large open world by directly stringing together safe metarooms.
To that end, I set up a series of teleporters using the interporter agent.
I linked Docking Station's Norn Meso with the learning room in the Norn Terrarium:
And I linked the Norn Terrarium to the Aquarium:
I also made the Jungle Terrarium entirely inaccessible using the door hider tool to stop the norns going there and getting sick:
This time, after learning my lesson from the absolute mess going on in my Creatures 2 game, I opted to go for a starting complement of 4 norns instead, with a population limit of 12 (DS allows you to set a pop limit rather than it being hard-coded. Though you can also change it in the console on C3). All the norns are TWB genome norns, which include all the brain upgrades from the CFF template; as well as changes to metabolism and temperature reactions for a more realistic physiology.
I also turned the ettin and grendel egg layers off because DS automatically starts with control of those species and I didn't want to take up pop space with them.
So... let's hatch some babies!
Here they are hanging outin the Norn Terrarium, all educated up thanks to the holistic learning machine located in the Norn Meso:
Let's meet the norns!
Tony
Now there's not so much distinction in norn personalities in C3, so these descriptions might be a little lacking (mostly due to the fact that C3 norns have strong and robust instincts from birth, thus there's less that they learn in life... that being said, if I ever get into modding, I might personalise some TWB breeds in the future to have reduced instincts and see how that works out). Regardless, here's Tony, a TWB Bengal Norn. He likes hitting toys a little more than the others. Got into a little slap fight with Sarah at one point too when he got overcrowded. He seems to favour sticking to the right side of the terrarium.
James
This is James - a TWB Bruin Norn. James loves pushing stuff. Toys, doors, critters... put him near the music box, and it'll drive you insane. I'm trying to teach him to follow critters instead when all his needs are met so that he can stay quiet and also get some exercise. Which is a thing with TWB norns. James seems to have a left side bias.
Sarah
This TWB Civet Norn is Sarah. She likes hanging out on the upper platform, though that might be because that's where I isolated her when she got sick, and she decided to hang out. TWB norns don't get obsessed with going up and down elevators like vanilla ones, so they rarely move very far if there's plenty around them to meet their needs.
Jenna
Jenna here is probably the most mobile of the bunch. This TWB Astro Norn also likes messing with doors - or did until I told her off for it. She's got a bit of an explorative personality, given she's the only one so far to move to a different room on the ship (the Learning Room). That's also where she gave birth.
Creatures 3 norns grow faster and have shorter lifespans than earlier norns, so it didn't take long for the baby-making to start. They're a little less obsessive about it though. Despite James's earlier attempts to woo Jenna, she ended up having her child with Tony instead. Of course, norns aren't monogamous, so James's luck hasn't been dashed yet.
Azure
Sorry about the photobomb
. Here's baby Azure. I educated him via the learning room in order to get a bit of dynamic language acquisition on the go. That, and I want to avoid picking up norns except in emergencies and I couldn't be bothered handholding him down to the meso.
Moving on...
There have been a few instances of minor bacteria and antigens floating around the Norn Terrarium since I started, and Sarah, Jenna and Tony all got sick. Turns out though that norns really appreciate you for helping them recover:
These three got in a bit of a love confession loop at one point and I had to tell them to rest to make it stop. Occasionally sprinkled with "Tony love Jenna"s and "Jenna love Tony"s. Don't worry, James was out of earshot!
The premise of this world is to attempt to mirror Creatures 2's large open world by directly stringing together safe metarooms.
To that end, I set up a series of teleporters using the interporter agent.
I linked Docking Station's Norn Meso with the learning room in the Norn Terrarium:
And I linked the Norn Terrarium to the Aquarium:
I also made the Jungle Terrarium entirely inaccessible using the door hider tool to stop the norns going there and getting sick:
This time, after learning my lesson from the absolute mess going on in my Creatures 2 game, I opted to go for a starting complement of 4 norns instead, with a population limit of 12 (DS allows you to set a pop limit rather than it being hard-coded. Though you can also change it in the console on C3). All the norns are TWB genome norns, which include all the brain upgrades from the CFF template; as well as changes to metabolism and temperature reactions for a more realistic physiology.
I also turned the ettin and grendel egg layers off because DS automatically starts with control of those species and I didn't want to take up pop space with them.
So... let's hatch some babies!
Here they are hanging outin the Norn Terrarium, all educated up thanks to the holistic learning machine located in the Norn Meso:
Let's meet the norns!
TonyNow there's not so much distinction in norn personalities in C3, so these descriptions might be a little lacking (mostly due to the fact that C3 norns have strong and robust instincts from birth, thus there's less that they learn in life... that being said, if I ever get into modding, I might personalise some TWB breeds in the future to have reduced instincts and see how that works out). Regardless, here's Tony, a TWB Bengal Norn. He likes hitting toys a little more than the others. Got into a little slap fight with Sarah at one point too when he got overcrowded. He seems to favour sticking to the right side of the terrarium.
JamesThis is James - a TWB Bruin Norn. James loves pushing stuff. Toys, doors, critters... put him near the music box, and it'll drive you insane. I'm trying to teach him to follow critters instead when all his needs are met so that he can stay quiet and also get some exercise. Which is a thing with TWB norns. James seems to have a left side bias.
SarahThis TWB Civet Norn is Sarah. She likes hanging out on the upper platform, though that might be because that's where I isolated her when she got sick, and she decided to hang out. TWB norns don't get obsessed with going up and down elevators like vanilla ones, so they rarely move very far if there's plenty around them to meet their needs.
JennaJenna here is probably the most mobile of the bunch. This TWB Astro Norn also likes messing with doors - or did until I told her off for it. She's got a bit of an explorative personality, given she's the only one so far to move to a different room on the ship (the Learning Room). That's also where she gave birth.
Creatures 3 norns grow faster and have shorter lifespans than earlier norns, so it didn't take long for the baby-making to start. They're a little less obsessive about it though. Despite James's earlier attempts to woo Jenna, she ended up having her child with Tony instead. Of course, norns aren't monogamous, so James's luck hasn't been dashed yet.
AzureSorry about the photobomb
. Here's baby Azure. I educated him via the learning room in order to get a bit of dynamic language acquisition on the go. That, and I want to avoid picking up norns except in emergencies and I couldn't be bothered handholding him down to the meso.Moving on...
There have been a few instances of minor bacteria and antigens floating around the Norn Terrarium since I started, and Sarah, Jenna and Tony all got sick. Turns out though that norns really appreciate you for helping them recover:
These three got in a bit of a love confession loop at one point and I had to tell them to rest to make it stop. Occasionally sprinkled with "Tony love Jenna"s and "Jenna love Tony"s. Don't worry, James was out of earshot!
PART 2
Some time later...
Well, James got sick. I'd isolated him near one of the teleporters and so he ended being the first norn to leave the Norn Terrarium of their own volition:
We all know what a belly like this means...
And here comes a batch of new babies!
Sapphire
Tony and Jenna are an established couple now. This boy is a testament to that. But there's no time to get to know him, because here come more babies!
Primrose
Primrose here has a colour mutation! She's another of Tony and Jenna's offspring.
Matt
At last, we have some competition in the gene pool! James has got together with Sarah to produce this norn.
Meanwhile...
Some exploring has been going on! Jenna's gone for a walk and wound up at the Ettin Terrarium!
She was lonely on her own though so I brought Tony over, and they seem to be settling in just fine.
But it looks like Azure has come of age, because...
Sally
Azure and Sarah got together to create Sally here. The Norn Terrarium is still somewhat overcrowded though (and food is getting scarce), so I've moved James and Sarah out into the Meso, thus I don't think this pairing will produce any more offspring. Sarah has since gotten pregnant, so Sally will be getting another half-sibling.
Carla
Remember what I said about Jenna and Tony settling in? Looks like they're right at home in the Ettin Terrarium!
Well, James got sick. I'd isolated him near one of the teleporters and so he ended being the first norn to leave the Norn Terrarium of their own volition:
We all know what a belly like this means...
And here comes a batch of new babies!
SapphireTony and Jenna are an established couple now. This boy is a testament to that. But there's no time to get to know him, because here come more babies!
PrimrosePrimrose here has a colour mutation! She's another of Tony and Jenna's offspring.
MattAt last, we have some competition in the gene pool! James has got together with Sarah to produce this norn.
Meanwhile...
Some exploring has been going on! Jenna's gone for a walk and wound up at the Ettin Terrarium!
She was lonely on her own though so I brought Tony over, and they seem to be settling in just fine.
But it looks like Azure has come of age, because...
SallyAzure and Sarah got together to create Sally here. The Norn Terrarium is still somewhat overcrowded though (and food is getting scarce), so I've moved James and Sarah out into the Meso, thus I don't think this pairing will produce any more offspring. Sarah has since gotten pregnant, so Sally will be getting another half-sibling.
CarlaRemember what I said about Jenna and Tony settling in? Looks like they're right at home in the Ettin Terrarium!
PART 3
Session 3 time!
So I've now spread the population out into three separate colonies. I may eventually let them wander between areas, I'm not sure yet. It depends if they end up all congregating in one place and causing localised food scarcity.
So... the population has started filling out further!
Charlie
James and Sarah's second child together.
Pea
Jenna and Tony have had another!
Pea gets his name from 'peacock'... because of his blue tail!
Tragedy!
Primrose (who unfortunately seemed to have grown out of her colour mutation, by the way) has died! The hoverdoc couldn't find any cause. She was disease-free and had no high drives. There must have been a hidden defect in there somewhere. Or maybe she got organ damage from temperature-related issues due to TWB anatomy? It's hard to say. Unfortunately, C3 doesn't have C2's science kit, so checking organ health is more difficult.
But don't worry! With the constant influx of new eggs, there's always new babies to take her place!
Amy
Here's Amy, rounding out the initial population limit I've set!
However...
I've decided that I want a bit more variety in the gene pool. And I feel like the Norn Terrarium can handle a couple of extra norns.
So I increased the pop limit by 2 and introduced a couple of new babies into the mix!
Violet
We have a light imbalance of males at the moment, so I've made both the new eggs female. The first was a TWB Chichi Norn. The base version of this breed comes with the free version of Docking Station.
Jester
Jester is a Harlequin Norn. Naturally, TWB.
And now we're at the new pop limit, so... no more new babies for a while!
Or at least... not until someone dies. The first gen four are likely starting to get a bit old now. C3 norns live about 4 hours. Not sure if TWB increases the lifespan or not.
As I was sorting all this out, I noticed something a little out of place with Pea...
He's turned green... for some reason. I have no idea why. A mutation perhaps? It doesn't look all that natural though.
So if sorting out the initial 4 norns counts as chapter 1, then I guess reaching the pop limit means the end of chapter 2 in this world's saga. Here's a pic of all of the 6 norns currently living in the Norn Terrarium! Looks like Pea's greenness was only temporary.
So in the Meso, we've got James, Sarah, Azure and Sally.
In the Desert we've got Tony, Jenna, Matt and Carla.
And in the Norn Terrarium, we've got Sapphire, Charlie, Pea, Amy, Violet and Jester.
So I've now spread the population out into three separate colonies. I may eventually let them wander between areas, I'm not sure yet. It depends if they end up all congregating in one place and causing localised food scarcity.
So... the population has started filling out further!
CharlieJames and Sarah's second child together.
PeaJenna and Tony have had another!
Pea gets his name from 'peacock'... because of his blue tail!
Tragedy!
Primrose (who unfortunately seemed to have grown out of her colour mutation, by the way) has died! The hoverdoc couldn't find any cause. She was disease-free and had no high drives. There must have been a hidden defect in there somewhere. Or maybe she got organ damage from temperature-related issues due to TWB anatomy? It's hard to say. Unfortunately, C3 doesn't have C2's science kit, so checking organ health is more difficult.
But don't worry! With the constant influx of new eggs, there's always new babies to take her place!
AmyHere's Amy, rounding out the initial population limit I've set!
However...
I've decided that I want a bit more variety in the gene pool. And I feel like the Norn Terrarium can handle a couple of extra norns.
So I increased the pop limit by 2 and introduced a couple of new babies into the mix!
VioletWe have a light imbalance of males at the moment, so I've made both the new eggs female. The first was a TWB Chichi Norn. The base version of this breed comes with the free version of Docking Station.
JesterJester is a Harlequin Norn. Naturally, TWB.
And now we're at the new pop limit, so... no more new babies for a while!
Or at least... not until someone dies. The first gen four are likely starting to get a bit old now. C3 norns live about 4 hours. Not sure if TWB increases the lifespan or not.
As I was sorting all this out, I noticed something a little out of place with Pea...
He's turned green... for some reason. I have no idea why. A mutation perhaps? It doesn't look all that natural though.
So if sorting out the initial 4 norns counts as chapter 1, then I guess reaching the pop limit means the end of chapter 2 in this world's saga. Here's a pic of all of the 6 norns currently living in the Norn Terrarium! Looks like Pea's greenness was only temporary.
So in the Meso, we've got James, Sarah, Azure and Sally.
In the Desert we've got Tony, Jenna, Matt and Carla.
And in the Norn Terrarium, we've got Sapphire, Charlie, Pea, Amy, Violet and Jester.
PART 4
After the Primrose incident, I got a hold of an agent that allows for seeing the status of a creature's organs, and that certainly revealed a few things to me.
For one thing, damage to the painly drive overwhelmsion was present in a fair number of my creatures, particularly those who had been infected with some sort of disease. It's the organ responsible for storing away a creature's drives when said creature is in pain in order to not distract it away from dealing with said pain. In James and Tony, the PDO is entirely dead. It's commonly targetted by histamine antigens.
Aside from the three screenshotted above, however, most creatures have organs in good health. Now... if I am correct... the 'ageing' organ here (is aging a US spelling or is it just misspelt in the agent?) is referring to the time line organ, which manages a creature's ageing. If that is destroyed, the creature will no longer be able to die of old age. Liver damage also seems to be common between these three norns.
Now for events!
Even having reached the pop limit, it won't stop the norns from laying eggs! Who cares if they won't hatch, right? James has spent a lot of time messing about in a far-off corner, so Sarah has turned back to Azure and... well Sally has too. Between Jenna and the two of them, the eggs have been building up, and even the younger norns left in the Norn Terrarium have started as well. There was even a case of twins from Sarah!
With so much breeding going on, norns in both the smaller groups have been confessing their love for one-another to the extent that they're stuck in a confession loop. It's getting very noisy in this here spaceship.
Meanwhile, the eggs have been piling up...
And it's always nice to get a share in some of the love...
Sadly for the desert group, there's been a bit of infrastructure damage, and a lift has stopped working.
I don't think they mind though; they seem happy enough just confessing their love for one-another over and over and occasionally eating grass seeds and ginseng.
Meanwhile, Tony has finally entered old age:
The above was taken in a rare and blessed moment of calm (it did not last.).
James is starting to go grey around the edges too.
And it's only a matter of time now until the gen 1 girls follow.
Still, there's plenty of eggs waiting for their turn. In fact, the egg limit has been reached. Which saves me having to go on egg hunts every few minutes.
For one thing, damage to the painly drive overwhelmsion was present in a fair number of my creatures, particularly those who had been infected with some sort of disease. It's the organ responsible for storing away a creature's drives when said creature is in pain in order to not distract it away from dealing with said pain. In James and Tony, the PDO is entirely dead. It's commonly targetted by histamine antigens.
Aside from the three screenshotted above, however, most creatures have organs in good health. Now... if I am correct... the 'ageing' organ here (is aging a US spelling or is it just misspelt in the agent?) is referring to the time line organ, which manages a creature's ageing. If that is destroyed, the creature will no longer be able to die of old age. Liver damage also seems to be common between these three norns.
Now for events!
Even having reached the pop limit, it won't stop the norns from laying eggs! Who cares if they won't hatch, right? James has spent a lot of time messing about in a far-off corner, so Sarah has turned back to Azure and... well Sally has too. Between Jenna and the two of them, the eggs have been building up, and even the younger norns left in the Norn Terrarium have started as well. There was even a case of twins from Sarah!
With so much breeding going on, norns in both the smaller groups have been confessing their love for one-another to the extent that they're stuck in a confession loop. It's getting very noisy in this here spaceship.
Meanwhile, the eggs have been piling up...
And it's always nice to get a share in some of the love...
Sadly for the desert group, there's been a bit of infrastructure damage, and a lift has stopped working.
I don't think they mind though; they seem happy enough just confessing their love for one-another over and over and occasionally eating grass seeds and ginseng.
Meanwhile, Tony has finally entered old age:
The above was taken in a rare and blessed moment of calm (it did not last.
).James is starting to go grey around the edges too.
And it's only a matter of time now until the gen 1 girls follow.
Still, there's plenty of eggs waiting for their turn. In fact, the egg limit has been reached. Which saves me having to go on egg hunts every few minutes.
PART 5
A little bit of research later...
So I've gotten to the bottom of the like/love loop. There's a script somewhere in the game files that has norns react to another's expression of fondness/hatred with a likewise expression. Normally, this fizzles out when there's only 2 norns involved. Introduce a third... and you've got a closed loop, as the first norn then reacts to the third in a chain. Add a fourth or even a sixth... and things get noisy fast. This doesn't matter so much with default breeds because the friend or foe lobe of the brain is broken. CFE/CFF however fix it, thus creatures remember how they feel about each other and thus when a third creature finds two others who also have opinions on a given norn... well you get constant backscratching. There's a mod to tone down the frequency of a creature expressing an opinion in the first place (though when they do, loops still happen), but I can't get it to work with my current world, as trying to inject it either throws up script in use errors (thus having no effect), or more catastrophically, results in an error that 'kills' (and by kill I mean programming kill, not in-game life kill) an involved creature immediately, resulting in them being wiped from existence like someone hit ctrl + x on them. With autokill disabled, you can ignore the error, but you will get a pop-up every time it shows up... and I'm not willing to test how persistent it is, as I don't want to risk autosaving the world in an unplayable state.
Speaking of kill commands... I looked up the command to kill agents so that I could get rid of that broken elevator and put some placeable alternatives in its place. I am speaking of course of the elevine mod.
It was originally designed for use with instinctless creatures, as instincts were a key part in what linked elevator buttons with elevators themselves. So instead the modder built these things to warp a creature between linked elevines. I like them because they're a quick and convenient way to replace a broken elevator.
So anyway, the girls are starting to get old now...
Tony's finally entered the 'ancient' life stage...
He's sleeping pretty much as often as he's awake at this point... and just look how much life chemical he has left...
The other three originals have joined him as ancients now too, sleeping away, still confessing their undying love to their friends and generally being very happy with their lives.
Meanwhile, the kids are starting to go grey as well. Azure is now old...
And Sapphire soon follows...
Anyhow, I've decided I'm going to save the current crop of eggs as backup to allow for the offspring of newer generations, rather than taking from the huge pool of gen 2/3 eggs. I will have to hatch one of them though in order to have a free egg slot for new eggs to be laid. But the oldies are still hanging onto life. Closing in on a respectable 5 hours now.
Matt's next to become old, and I've decided to rearrange my norns a bit.
I'm turning the Meso into more of a retirement home and putting the oldest norns there to keep an eye on them. The next oldest are being put in the desert (which is a lot more pleasant than it sounds) just to let the younger norns have a chance to reproduce and have a more varied selection of genes in the offspring.
Well... it finally happened. And jeeeeeez, with all the preparation I've been doing, I didn't expect it to hit so hard. Just can't help but get attached to them.
RIP Tony. At least he died happy with his love by his side.
Meanwhile, I need to take a moment, because it's left me in a pretty bad mess.
The first generation is always the hardest, I guess.
So I've gotten to the bottom of the like/love loop. There's a script somewhere in the game files that has norns react to another's expression of fondness/hatred with a likewise expression. Normally, this fizzles out when there's only 2 norns involved. Introduce a third... and you've got a closed loop, as the first norn then reacts to the third in a chain. Add a fourth or even a sixth... and things get noisy fast. This doesn't matter so much with default breeds because the friend or foe lobe of the brain is broken. CFE/CFF however fix it, thus creatures remember how they feel about each other and thus when a third creature finds two others who also have opinions on a given norn... well you get constant backscratching. There's a mod to tone down the frequency of a creature expressing an opinion in the first place (though when they do, loops still happen), but I can't get it to work with my current world, as trying to inject it either throws up script in use errors (thus having no effect), or more catastrophically, results in an error that 'kills' (and by kill I mean programming kill, not in-game life kill) an involved creature immediately, resulting in them being wiped from existence like someone hit ctrl + x on them. With autokill disabled, you can ignore the error, but you will get a pop-up every time it shows up... and I'm not willing to test how persistent it is, as I don't want to risk autosaving the world in an unplayable state.
Speaking of kill commands... I looked up the command to kill agents so that I could get rid of that broken elevator and put some placeable alternatives in its place. I am speaking of course of the elevine mod.
It was originally designed for use with instinctless creatures, as instincts were a key part in what linked elevator buttons with elevators themselves. So instead the modder built these things to warp a creature between linked elevines. I like them because they're a quick and convenient way to replace a broken elevator.
So anyway, the girls are starting to get old now...
Tony's finally entered the 'ancient' life stage...
He's sleeping pretty much as often as he's awake at this point... and just look how much life chemical he has left...
The other three originals have joined him as ancients now too, sleeping away, still confessing their undying love to their friends and generally being very happy with their lives.
Meanwhile, the kids are starting to go grey as well. Azure is now old...
And Sapphire soon follows...
Anyhow, I've decided I'm going to save the current crop of eggs as backup to allow for the offspring of newer generations, rather than taking from the huge pool of gen 2/3 eggs. I will have to hatch one of them though in order to have a free egg slot for new eggs to be laid. But the oldies are still hanging onto life. Closing in on a respectable 5 hours now.
Matt's next to become old, and I've decided to rearrange my norns a bit.
I'm turning the Meso into more of a retirement home and putting the oldest norns there to keep an eye on them. The next oldest are being put in the desert (which is a lot more pleasant than it sounds) just to let the younger norns have a chance to reproduce and have a more varied selection of genes in the offspring.
Well... it finally happened. And jeeeeeez, with all the preparation I've been doing, I didn't expect it to hit so hard. Just can't help but get attached to them.
RIP Tony. At least he died happy with his love by his side.
Meanwhile, I need to take a moment, because it's left me in a pretty bad mess.
The first generation is always the hardest, I guess.
PART 6
So... after a break to uh... totally not wipe my eyes...
The random baby from the egg pile is...
Belle!
Unfortunately, it's another Sarah/James kid. Ah well. A quick drop into the learning machine and off she goes to the Norn Terrarium. And also time for a reshuffle of- wait a minute...!
Apparently these old doofuses still have it in them to sneak in another egg before the young 'uns can fill up that last slot! If you'll recall from right at the beginning the relationship that almost was but never quite happened... well in the twilight of their lives, James and Jenna have finally gotten together to have that egg together.
And it really was one last egg for them, because seconds later...
RIP James.
Hope
So I called this one Hope. Because... I don't know. He's hope for the future? I don't know, I couldn't think of a better name. I was originally thinking Bucket because his conception made James kick the proverbial... but I think that's a little too morbid.
Meanwhile, four minutes apart from each other...
I did a bit of prep work before hatching the next two eggs. First of course, I had deaths to register at the cemetery.
Which marks the end of Generation 1. My poor precious babies. The sad thing is that you never love another norn like you did your first batch. Mostly because they have time to grow up before they start breeding and you have too many norns to focus on specific ones. And that quality time gets you pretty attached.
Especially if you spend some of that time keeping them healthy in the face of sickness.
And speaking of sickness...
I think the bacteria tweaking cob must have been autokilled at some point or something, because there hasn't been a single infection for hours.
Despite having 14 norns to juggle between.
Well... regardless... room re-jiggling time.
The Retirement Meso is now home to Azure, Sapphire, Matt and Sally.
The holiday retreat desert room is now home to Carla, Charlie, Pea and Amy... who have already started messing up the place, so I had to do some tidying up. Those toys were spread out for a reason, darnit!
That leaves Violet and Jester back at the Norn Terrariumconstantly opening and closing doors looking after the kiddins.
Speaking of babs... Belle and Hope have been joined by...
Tigger & Vibrant!
Tigger has precious little purple arms and Vibrant is a mix of all sorts of breeds! Which means yes... the younger adults finally get to be parents! Tigger is the offspring of Pea and Violet. Vibrant is the child of Carla and Charlie.
Violet went all the way out into the main corridor to have her baby for some reason. And she took the music box out with her. Why she carried it all that way I do not know. No other norn has even stepped foot into the lower floor of the Norn Terrarium before now, let alone left through the front door.
The random baby from the egg pile is...
Belle!Unfortunately, it's another Sarah/James kid. Ah well. A quick drop into the learning machine and off she goes to the Norn Terrarium. And also time for a reshuffle of- wait a minute...!
Apparently these old doofuses still have it in them to sneak in another egg before the young 'uns can fill up that last slot! If you'll recall from right at the beginning the relationship that almost was but never quite happened... well in the twilight of their lives, James and Jenna have finally gotten together to have that egg together.
And it really was one last egg for them, because seconds later...
RIP James.
HopeSo I called this one Hope. Because... I don't know. He's hope for the future? I don't know, I couldn't think of a better name. I was originally thinking Bucket because his conception made James kick the proverbial... but I think that's a little too morbid.
Meanwhile, four minutes apart from each other...
I did a bit of prep work before hatching the next two eggs. First of course, I had deaths to register at the cemetery.
Which marks the end of Generation 1. My poor precious babies. The sad thing is that you never love another norn like you did your first batch. Mostly because they have time to grow up before they start breeding and you have too many norns to focus on specific ones. And that quality time gets you pretty attached.
Especially if you spend some of that time keeping them healthy in the face of sickness.
And speaking of sickness...
I think the bacteria tweaking cob must have been autokilled at some point or something, because there hasn't been a single infection for hours.
Despite having 14 norns to juggle between.
Well... regardless... room re-jiggling time.
The Retirement Meso is now home to Azure, Sapphire, Matt and Sally.
The holiday retreat desert room is now home to Carla, Charlie, Pea and Amy... who have already started messing up the place, so I had to do some tidying up. Those toys were spread out for a reason, darnit!
That leaves Violet and Jester back at the Norn Terrarium
Speaking of babs... Belle and Hope have been joined by...
Tigger & Vibrant!Tigger has precious little purple arms and Vibrant is a mix of all sorts of breeds! Which means yes... the younger adults finally get to be parents! Tigger is the offspring of Pea and Violet. Vibrant is the child of Carla and Charlie.
Violet went all the way out into the main corridor to have her baby for some reason. And she took the music box out with her. Why she carried it all that way I do not know. No other norn has even stepped foot into the lower floor of the Norn Terrarium before now, let alone left through the front door.
Interlude
So I logged back in for a moment after updating some bootstrap files to get Docking Station to use Creatures 3 event music (Docking Station's suuuucks... heck the death music in DS is the same music as one of the Capillata corridor music tracks and the birth music also plays in the Norn Meso, with a very similar track that plays in the Comms room) to inject the altered scripts into the world and... look at this warm welcome I arrived to!
PART 7
So as it turns out...
Bacteria is working. Jester got sick with some histamine. I think it's because I set the bacteria agent to mixed rather than just all bad, given its default settings created a lot of ATP decoupler on my ettin world. So a lot of the bacteria mutated into harmless forms, I guess. Trying to get older norns to do something they're not used to is haaard though. Eat the darned medicine damn you!
Time marches on...
And life finds a way.
A couple of unfortunate pairings there... but that's the sort of thing you can get in a game with an AI based around learning as opposed to scripted programming.
We're probably going to end up with a very Bengal-heavy norn genome when everything homogenises (if I ever play long enough for that to happen).
At this rate, I'm going to have to put Jester in the splicing machine at some point to preserve her DNA. Not the best way to go, but I'll wait until she goes into the retirement room so that she can have a full life in the meantime.
Bacteria is working. Jester got sick with some histamine. I think it's because I set the bacteria agent to mixed rather than just all bad, given its default settings created a lot of ATP decoupler on my ettin world. So a lot of the bacteria mutated into harmless forms, I guess. Trying to get older norns to do something they're not used to is haaard though. Eat the darned medicine damn you!
Time marches on...
And life finds a way.
Robert
(Amy & Pea)
Otis
(Carla & Sapphire)
Jazz
(Carla & Charlie)
(Amy & Pea)
Otis
(Carla & Sapphire)
Jazz
(Carla & Charlie)
A couple of unfortunate pairings there... but that's the sort of thing you can get in a game with an AI based around learning as opposed to scripted programming.
We're probably going to end up with a very Bengal-heavy norn genome when everything homogenises (if I ever play long enough for that to happen).
At this rate, I'm going to have to put Jester in the splicing machine at some point to preserve her DNA. Not the best way to go, but I'll wait until she goes into the retirement room so that she can have a full life in the meantime.
Oh my gosh, this brings back SO many memories!! I absolutely adored Creatures 2 for the longest time.
I'm sad I don't have a clue how to get it to work anymore!
That said, this is an awesome game journal Riik. An interesting and amusing read.
It is sad that the series hasn't been picked up or that something like this hasn't been put out there again. I know the whole Tamagotchi-esque era is over and done (reaally dating myself there!), but a girl can dream.
I'm sad I don't have a clue how to get it to work anymore!
That said, this is an awesome game journal Riik. An interesting and amusing read.
It is sad that the series hasn't been picked up or that something like this hasn't been put out there again. I know the whole Tamagotchi-esque era is over and done (reaally dating myself there!), but a girl can dream.
Oh, hey. I vaguely recall playing Creatures 3, but at least at the time, I had no idea what to do, or even totally what I was supposed to do. I also remember having at least one that got old enough to turn kinda grey.
Wolf - Actually, in addition to all the various pet/caretaker mobile games out there, apparently Tamagotchis themselves have supposedly been making a comeback. Haven't seen any, but so I've heard.
Wolf - Actually, in addition to all the various pet/caretaker mobile games out there, apparently Tamagotchis themselves have supposedly been making a comeback. Haven't seen any, but so I've heard.
Creatures 2 is a bit of a mess to get working these days... Mind you, so is creatures 3 (the GOG version at least... on certain systems). But there is advice on the wiki about it... Though I don't have the links at hand right now because I am using my phone.
I was able to get Creatures 1 running straight out of installation though.
I'd love to see what modern technology could do with a creatures game, but alas, such opportunities have fizzled out recently. There have also been fan/indie efforts to emulate the game style, but looking at the wiki pages on their progress and development time, there isn't much hope to be had.
The funny thing about Creatures games is that you're not really supposed to do anything. There isn't an endgame. They are basically highly advanced tamagotchis.
One popular way to play is to put a few eggs into a world and let the creatures fend for themselves, then check back after a few generations to see how they have progressed genetically. If I wasn't on my phone, I could link to a few blog posts on the subject.
Or you could just inject a single norn and treat it like a tamagotchi (keeping in mind that if it doesn't die for whatever other reason, it probably won't live for more than a few hours).
What I've been doing recently is looking after medium sized colonies and keeping track of their family trees... At least until my parents got a puppy, which honestly isn't much different to looking after a particularly stubborn norn, so I haven't had much motivation to play for a while.
I was able to get Creatures 1 running straight out of installation though.
I'd love to see what modern technology could do with a creatures game, but alas, such opportunities have fizzled out recently. There have also been fan/indie efforts to emulate the game style, but looking at the wiki pages on their progress and development time, there isn't much hope to be had.
The funny thing about Creatures games is that you're not really supposed to do anything. There isn't an endgame. They are basically highly advanced tamagotchis.
One popular way to play is to put a few eggs into a world and let the creatures fend for themselves, then check back after a few generations to see how they have progressed genetically. If I wasn't on my phone, I could link to a few blog posts on the subject.
Or you could just inject a single norn and treat it like a tamagotchi (keeping in mind that if it doesn't die for whatever other reason, it probably won't live for more than a few hours).
What I've been doing recently is looking after medium sized colonies and keeping track of their family trees... At least until my parents got a puppy, which honestly isn't much different to looking after a particularly stubborn norn, so I haven't had much motivation to play for a while.
At my computer now, so here are some interesting posts from a long-running Creatures blog about genetic mutation over time in a mostly-left-alone world set up to put norns through an IQ test in order to survive:
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/02/emerging-behavior.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/wolfpotato-on-hold.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/if-only-evolution-actually-worked-like.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/darn-genetics.html
Also, here's those pages from the wiki I was talking about:
https://creatures.wiki/Creatures_2_Community-Recommended_Fixes_and_Addons
(Note: about the compatibility settings recommended by the DXWrapper github page - setting things into compatibility mode broke things for me. My PC brings up a dialogue box about colour mode when C2 is loaded up, and hitting yes is sufficient. It wouldn't run for me after manually setting colour modes. Also, the game crashes a lot at startup, but if you keep trying, it'll eventually work).
https://creatures.wiki/Creatures_3_%26_Docking_Station_Community_Recommended_Fixes_and_Addons
(Note regarding the GOG version: Perhaps because of the multiple company reshuffles that went on during C3's lifespan between the various re-releases, all the registry entries for C3 are not in the same place. Therefore if you get the registry bug, don't fall for the temptation of thinking you only need to search for the registry folder for the game once. Even when you've fixed every instance in the folder, run another search just in case. You'll likely find you'll have to fix directory references in multiple folders across your registry).
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/02/emerging-behavior.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/wolfpotato-on-hold.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/if-only-evolution-actually-worked-like.html
https://naturingnurturing.blogspot.com/2009/03/darn-genetics.html
Also, here's those pages from the wiki I was talking about:
https://creatures.wiki/Creatures_2_Community-Recommended_Fixes_and_Addons
(Note: about the compatibility settings recommended by the DXWrapper github page - setting things into compatibility mode broke things for me. My PC brings up a dialogue box about colour mode when C2 is loaded up, and hitting yes is sufficient. It wouldn't run for me after manually setting colour modes. Also, the game crashes a lot at startup, but if you keep trying, it'll eventually work).
https://creatures.wiki/Creatures_3_%26_Docking_Station_Community_Recommended_Fixes_and_Addons
(Note regarding the GOG version: Perhaps because of the multiple company reshuffles that went on during C3's lifespan between the various re-releases, all the registry entries for C3 are not in the same place. Therefore if you get the registry bug, don't fall for the temptation of thinking you only need to search for the registry folder for the game once. Even when you've fixed every instance in the folder, run another search just in case. You'll likely find you'll have to fix directory references in multiple folders across your registry).
OMG I WAS ABSOLUTELY ADDICTED TO THESE GAMES when I was a kid! I ADORED them! I still think about them from time to time, and my favorite Grendels. It's such a delight to see some of the screenshots again!
I was always more of an ettin fan personally. I found them really mysterious at first, and was so excited when I first accidentally stumbled upon how to unlock them on C3. Their fondness for pinching gadgets can be pretty frustrating though. And they very quickly get crowded and scared, so they don't breed all that well, which is bad when wanting to look after a full colony of them.
Grendels are kinda cool, but I'm kinda scared of mingling them with norns due to their violent nature (and their home metaroom being filled with disease). I was recently debating doing a run with an interbreeding mod, but instead settled for setting up some modified genomes of norns that use grendel and ettin sprites (hardman norns for the grendels in particular... they certainly feel grendel enough given how they're constantly angry all the time... they just don't take that anger out on other norns).
Speaking of that recent world, I decided when I started it to not document it, as I wanted a more relaxed run with less admin ontop of it, but I ended up making a family tree anyway (which ended up being the driving factor to continue).
At this point though, I'm quite tempted to do some genetics stuff myself beyond just sprite swaps to get some norn breeds made that fit the way I like to play the game. Sadly, I can't get the official genetics kit to work, so the best option for C3 is a browser-based one that is pretty clunky. There's a decent third-party one for C2 though that I've been playing around with.
Grendels are kinda cool, but I'm kinda scared of mingling them with norns due to their violent nature (and their home metaroom being filled with disease). I was recently debating doing a run with an interbreeding mod, but instead settled for setting up some modified genomes of norns that use grendel and ettin sprites (hardman norns for the grendels in particular... they certainly feel grendel enough given how they're constantly angry all the time... they just don't take that anger out on other norns).
Speaking of that recent world, I decided when I started it to not document it, as I wanted a more relaxed run with less admin ontop of it, but I ended up making a family tree anyway (which ended up being the driving factor to continue).
At this point though, I'm quite tempted to do some genetics stuff myself beyond just sprite swaps to get some norn breeds made that fit the way I like to play the game. Sadly, I can't get the official genetics kit to work, so the best option for C3 is a browser-based one that is pretty clunky. There's a decent third-party one for C2 though that I've been playing around with.
Ok, so here's a helpful find for anyone on here who might have some experience with genetics editing in Creatures 2 (if there's anyone on this site deeply enough invested in this series for that )...
I've found a way to make norns less reluctant to sleep. Note that it's not 100% foolproof, as instincts get reinforced when a creature sleeps, and thus if a creature doesn't sleep for a while, its instincts decline in prevalence; thus if it's relying on instincts to decide resting is good, and those instincts are reduced enough... well you can probably see where I'm going with this. I haven't tested this in a world with more than 1 norn though, and I know for certain that multiple norns are particularly bad at distracting each other and completely skewing their understanding of how the world works. I also used the Improved Canny Norn genome as a base for this, so I don't know if it'd be reliable with any other genome. And also, I haven't tested it for more than an hour or so nor have I tried it under a significant number of circumstances. So I don't know whether it'd have any adverse effects I haven't seen yet.
Essentially, the first act is to add reward production to the resting stimulus. Not too much, as you don't want them to become addicted, but enough that they get a positive experience out of it. There are no free slots left in the default stimulus, and when I tried multiple stimuli for the activity, the second overwrote the first in the norn's behaviour, so the compromise I came to was to replace the boredom production (it doesn't change much, given that default C2 norns don't even try to rest half the time anyway, so it's not like it rebalances anything to remove that).
Secondly, I added additional resting-based instincts that told it that resting and sleeping is rewarding... and also that resting reduces sleepiness (it doesn't - it increases it until the creature falls asleep, but without it a sleepy norn will decide that resting won't help it reduce sleepiness as it doesn't understand that resting makes it fall asleep). This creates a resting behaviour not actually all that different to Creatures 3 norns. I.e. the creature will rest if tired, but also if it's happy and randomly decides resting is the activity it wants to pass the time with. The only downside is that it is possible for the instincts to decay to a point where the creature won't rest so easily, though if it rests enough just randomly and stuff, it'll remember the small amount of reward it gets, so it's not a common problem within the creature's lifespan.
I also made some eating-based changes to the genome I was playing with, but I'm not happy enough with the results yet to share them (I got the norn to be willing to eat a lot more often, but it'll also be more like to try to eat things that are bad for it and also the test subject's eating stubbornness seems to have moved over to pushing and pulling things, though to a significantly lesser extent than the eating problems. I honestly believe that part of the problem with norn decision making issues in C2 is trying and failing to interact with the clouds, skewing what they think works). Needless to say, with these changes, I ended up with a norn that was happy significantly more often than any other norn breed I have ever seen on Creatures 2. In fact the statement '<name> yes' ('yes' seemingly the word for 'happy' in C2... at least when a norn says it... which is odd, because a creature with a low need for pleasure drive uses the word 'sad', but eh) is something I've barely ever seen from any other norn genome (I've seen a few '<name> get yes' in the past which is more recognisable, as that's typically what a creature says when its need for pleasure is low, but not it's not low enough for them to be sad).
I think the next step in my experiment is to look at what the Kannova Venterra genome has done to instincts, because whilst the Kannova Norns and their variants have a sleeping problem (not a problem with sleeping, but rather how they sleep... which they often do incorrectly) that damages their otherwise intriguing way of combining Canny Norn brain edits with Nova Subterra ones, the Venterra variant makes instinct changes that I would like to look at and compare with, because apparently some of the default instincts are wont to cause OHSS and I'm eager to find out just which ones.
)...I've found a way to make norns less reluctant to sleep. Note that it's not 100% foolproof, as instincts get reinforced when a creature sleeps, and thus if a creature doesn't sleep for a while, its instincts decline in prevalence; thus if it's relying on instincts to decide resting is good, and those instincts are reduced enough... well you can probably see where I'm going with this. I haven't tested this in a world with more than 1 norn though, and I know for certain that multiple norns are particularly bad at distracting each other and completely skewing their understanding of how the world works. I also used the Improved Canny Norn genome as a base for this, so I don't know if it'd be reliable with any other genome. And also, I haven't tested it for more than an hour or so nor have I tried it under a significant number of circumstances. So I don't know whether it'd have any adverse effects I haven't seen yet.
Essentially, the first act is to add reward production to the resting stimulus. Not too much, as you don't want them to become addicted, but enough that they get a positive experience out of it. There are no free slots left in the default stimulus, and when I tried multiple stimuli for the activity, the second overwrote the first in the norn's behaviour, so the compromise I came to was to replace the boredom production (it doesn't change much, given that default C2 norns don't even try to rest half the time anyway, so it's not like it rebalances anything to remove that).
Secondly, I added additional resting-based instincts that told it that resting and sleeping is rewarding... and also that resting reduces sleepiness (it doesn't - it increases it until the creature falls asleep, but without it a sleepy norn will decide that resting won't help it reduce sleepiness as it doesn't understand that resting makes it fall asleep). This creates a resting behaviour not actually all that different to Creatures 3 norns. I.e. the creature will rest if tired, but also if it's happy and randomly decides resting is the activity it wants to pass the time with. The only downside is that it is possible for the instincts to decay to a point where the creature won't rest so easily, though if it rests enough just randomly and stuff, it'll remember the small amount of reward it gets, so it's not a common problem within the creature's lifespan.
I also made some eating-based changes to the genome I was playing with, but I'm not happy enough with the results yet to share them (I got the norn to be willing to eat a lot more often, but it'll also be more like to try to eat things that are bad for it and also the test subject's eating stubbornness seems to have moved over to pushing and pulling things, though to a significantly lesser extent than the eating problems. I honestly believe that part of the problem with norn decision making issues in C2 is trying and failing to interact with the clouds, skewing what they think works). Needless to say, with these changes, I ended up with a norn that was happy significantly more often than any other norn breed I have ever seen on Creatures 2. In fact the statement '<name> yes' ('yes' seemingly the word for 'happy' in C2... at least when a norn says it... which is odd, because a creature with a low need for pleasure drive uses the word 'sad', but eh) is something I've barely ever seen from any other norn genome (I've seen a few '<name> get yes' in the past which is more recognisable, as that's typically what a creature says when its need for pleasure is low, but not it's not low enough for them to be sad).
I think the next step in my experiment is to look at what the Kannova Venterra genome has done to instincts, because whilst the Kannova Norns and their variants have a sleeping problem (not a problem with sleeping, but rather how they sleep... which they often do incorrectly) that damages their otherwise intriguing way of combining Canny Norn brain edits with Nova Subterra ones, the Venterra variant makes instinct changes that I would like to look at and compare with, because apparently some of the default instincts are wont to cause OHSS and I'm eager to find out just which ones.
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