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Forums » Smalltalk » Pride Literature (Books n stuff)

I could have posted this in the pride post that was made, but people were sharing about themselves, and I didn't want to take from that, so here we are.

Your favorite books or stories with pride characters as the MAIN character (Or a powerful side character, but mostly I want the spotlight on the alphabet) . Mine is Mask of Shadows - it's a fantasy novel and the main character is gender fluid and is part of a duology. I really like that sal is very up front about what they want from others and their pronouns, but still is vulnerable enough to talk about how it effects them when the people closer to them can't respect it. (Edited)

And for those of you that see my posts in LFRP there's the teensiest bit of romance in it too, which I'll always be a sucker for.
Love this!

So, I found Motzie Dapul via podcast ads for the Rusty Quill network.
I love Hi Nay! It gives me "found footage" vibes, done in the style of communications: calls, texts, VMs between the characters.
I'm planning to give Motzie all my money for her books!

You know I need those monster-love stories! 😇

Motzie Dapul
Claine Moderator

It's a bit of an oldie but I can't recommend The Left Hand of Darkness enough. The must thoughtful books on transhumanism, gender identity and roles, wrapped up in a thrilling and evocative science fiction story.

Also... A lot of indie comic creators have prominent LGBTQ+ themes, and if you're interested I can compile a huge ass list.
A few of Sir Terry Pratchett's works deal with themes of gender identity and sexual orientation as a forefront of the plot. The couple off the top of my head include Equal Rites (which I own but haven't finished yet) and Monstrous Regiment.
Claine wrote:

Also... A lot of indie comic creators have prominent LGBTQ+ themes, and if you're interested I can compile a huge ass list.

Oh my gosh, yes! I adore Megan Rose Gedris' Yu + Me Dream and The Kingfisher by Kelly Martin.
Claine Moderator

.the.MILK.theef. wrote:
Claine wrote:

Also... A lot of indie comic creators have prominent LGBTQ+ themes, and if you're interested I can compile a huge ass list.

Oh my gosh, yes! I adore Megan Rose Gedris' Yu + Me Dream and The Kingfisher by Kelly Martin.

Oh boy now you are in for it! I will not shut up about Webcomics you have been warned.

Full Disclaimer: I know almost every author of the comics I'm about to list ;;

Puffer and Clarissa An superhero style comic with an underwater theme! wlw main cast. Has some of the best representation of familial abuse I have ever seen. And!! It's finishing up soon, so pick it up while it's hot!
Clover and Cutlass Light heated, wlw D&D Style Fantasy comic. Has an amazing amount of depth and heart.
A Star Below A very deep and complex fantasy story with a wxnb lead, as well as loads of LGBTQ+ side characters. Tackles topics of self-love, institutionalized hatred, and found family.
Fairmeadow Fantasy with wlw main lead. I honestly consider this comic required reading. It is so beautifully written, I was crying big fat tears even before the end of chapter 1. Deals with topics of war, trauma, idealism and pragmatism.
Ghost Junk Sickness Honestly... so many LGBTQ+ pairings I can't even list them all. wlw mlm nb rep. Insanely diverse, action packed sci-fi comic, with a complex plot that will keep you guessing. Over 1000 pages long! A great read if you like classic manga because it has a lot of those vibes, both in art style and storytelling aesthetic.
Joys Another comic with a lot of LGBTQ+ rep. A modern supernatural story, about family mysteries.
King of Sorts Set in a strange fantasy world, with a touch of technology. This beautiful, hand-drawn comic has a lot of LGBTQ+ Rep.
Garden of Iron A Queer story set in a strange world distorted by magic. Mirrors the story of the Garden of Eden.
QoutusLotus A queer fantasy, with gorgeous expressive art, lush green backgrounds and beautiful forests.
What Happens Next Read the content warnings. Heed the content warnings. This story is dark. A story about internet / tumblr / life crime culture. Every character is a terrible person, and this comic is great.
Last one !! Transparent Eyes Is a set in a sci-fi fantasy setting, which tackles themes of the divine abuse and mental illness.
*takes notes* <_<
Four Topic Starter

That's beautiful, Claine, thank you so much!
Mm, trying to remember titles or anything... It's been too long since I read these, so I'm afraid I can't remember much or if they might have had serious problems I was blind to. ^^;

First thing I recall is a trilogy that's part of a larger set of books (I've only read the trilogy). The set is The Last Herald-Mage by... Mercedes Lackey. The main character is a gay man. Other gay characters (other than his interests) also show up, and they're super chill.

Another is, I think, Aristoi by Walter Jon Williams. The main character is... mostly a man (the book plays with the concept of DID/multiple personalities a bit and makes it a cultural norm for the advanced, scifi society he lives in, and I think he had at least one that was a woman?) who I'm pretty sure was bi/pan (also seems a cultural norm, at least for the one he was raised in) and develops a strong relationship with another man. I think there might be more books that tie in, but I'm not sure.
Just... uh..... gonna leave this here my babies.

Prideosaurs
Red, White, and Royal Blue is one of my favorites! Another series I adore is The Selection series. ^^
Wow, I'm pretty late to the party!

One that really reached out to me was Eon: Rise of The Dragoneye (aka Tow Pearls of Wisdom).

The main character is [spoilers] a girl with a broken leg who passes as a boy in a brutally mysoginistic society so that she could bond with a dragon and become a Dragoneye. However, since she is the first woman to perform the bonding ritual in decades, her arrival awakes the dragon-dragon, who only binds with women, but hasn't had the opportunity to since they were disallowed to become Dragoneyes.

She suffers dysphoria from living as the wrong gender, she's helped by a trans woman (who never undergoes bottom surgery!) and an eunuch warrior who are deeply in love with each-other, there's a ton of morally complex characters, it's explicitly anti status-quo, all that jazz. Also there's dragons, so what not to love?

Funnily enough I'm pretty sure it was written by an old, white cis woman, so color me surprised with how positive the gnc representation is in this one. We've had at least one old, white cis woman who was really bad at this!
Yesugei

"Pride Literature" is stupid and completely goes against the push for accepting gay people. A book focusing on and heavily involving a gay characters, as in it's a major character trait and/or their sole defining feature, has failed to represent gay people well. We aren't special, we aren't weird and we should not be focused on. A gay character should exist in the plot without being focused on, they should merely exist and thus Pride Literature is worthless to read if you're looking for good representation in books.

For example:

A book going "Kyle was talking to me about his husband..." in passing conversation does it well. It is natural, it is part of the world and it shows acceptance of the subject matter by weaving it organically into the sentence.

A book going "I AM 'gender fluid' AND MY PRONOUNS ARE..." every page, or "THIS GAY WOMAN, WHO IS TOTALLY GAY AND AWESOME AND BRAVE AND COOL BECAUSE SHE IS GAY...' does it badly because it acts like this is something strange, unusual or 'wrong' that must be focused up and broadcast 24/7. It comes across as preachy.

Mod edit: SPOILER The mod team bans this guy later in the thread for regurgitating anti-trans propagandist talking points, but had trouble editing all this out because of the number of back and forth replies.
I disagree with the idea that there can't be uniquely queer stories. As a trans woman, stories that explicitly praise and focus on trans characters or characters that share similar challenges (dysphoria, demonization etc) are incredibly valuable to me. They feel good for me to read, they let me relate on a deeper level with a character, they offer new perspectives on my own identity and finally, they offer me respite from a day-to-day life that constantly peppers me with hatred.

Casual queerness can - and should - exist in all media in the form of "Oh yeah that teenage boy in that picture was actually me, who is now an adult woman" or "Steve and his husband", but those aren't enough for queer stories. Queer stories should be about queer people, about queer themes and about queer conflicts, and those queer stories ABSOLUTELY should exist.
Yesugei wrote:
"Pride Literature" is stupid and completely goes against the push for accepting gay people. A book focusing on and heavily involving a gay characters, as in it's a major character trait and/or their sole defining feature, has failed to represent gay people well. We aren't special, we aren't weird and we should not be focused on. A gay character should exist in the plot without being focused on, they should merely exist and thus Pride Literature is worthless to read if you're looking for good representation in books.

For example:

A book going "Kyle was talking to me about his husband..." in passing conversation does it well. It is natural, it is part of the world and it shows acceptance of the subject matter by weaving it organically into the sentence.

A book going "I AM 'gender fluid' AND MY PRONOUNS ARE..." every page, or "THIS GAY WOMAN, WHO IS TOTALLY GAY AND AWESOME AND BRAVE AND COOL BECAUSE SHE IS GAY...' does it badly because it acts like this is something strange, unusual or 'wrong' that must be focused up and broadcast 24/7. It comes across as preachy.


I dare say until we can get to the point of being included regularly as normal people in all artistic and entertainment endeavors, LGBTQ+ folx will have to continue to represent themselves loudly and boldly.

Of course we're just existing and normal and not special.


However, if you or anyone you know has ever experienced hate because of religion, government,
Or groups of people in power, I think you can understand WHY the queers wanna be loud and proud and centered.
Yesugei

LeDuc wrote:
Queer stories should be about queer people, about queer themes and about queer conflicts, and those queer stories ABSOLUTELY should exist.

Wrong in so many ways, on so many levels but whatever. Just know those stories hurt the acceptance of our kind FAR more than they help.
I'm going ahead and blocking Yesugei, because I'm not interested in arguing with a young man about the importance of BIPOC LGBTQ+ representation.

It's giving troll. It's giving privilege. No thanks.
Four Topic Starter

Yesugei wrote:
LeDuc wrote:
Queer stories should be about queer people, about queer themes and about queer conflicts, and those queer stories ABSOLUTELY should exist.

Wrong in so many ways, on so many levels but whatever. Just know those stories hurt the acceptance of our kind FAR more than they help.

At the very core I understand what you were attempting to say but the way you conveyed it was incredibly rude and insensitive to your peers and you're more than welcome to have an opinion but that response was 100% more harmful to the LGBT+ community than any book.

Pride literature is not stupid it's great having that openness though having a character who's only personality straight is their queerness can be frustrating and yes, harmful to the queer community painting the stereotype. I agree, their sexuality should only come up as often as say a cisgender straight person (perhaps a little more depending on the circumstances)


However! it's like if I asked about fantasy books where the mc is a POC, or female protagonists, or something... That should not be their only trait... But the literature and representation behind it is sssooo important to know to exists and to expand it.

So, not sorry, but you're the one way far off in the wrong here... (@yesugei)
Yesugei

.the.MILK.theef. wrote:
I'm going ahead and blocking Yesugei, because I'm not interested in arguing with a young man about the importance of BIPOC LGBTQ+ representation.

It's giving troll. It's giving privilege. No thanks.

Fine by me love.
LOVE how you're oooooh so inclusive until a gay man speaks then you scream and cry.
LGBTQ+ but the LGB clearly don't matter to you lmao
Four wrote:
At the very core I understand what you were attempting to say but the way you conveyed it was incredibly rude and insensitive to your peers and you're more than welcome to have an opinion but that response was 100% more harmful to the LGBT+ community than any book.

Pride literature is not stupid it's great having that openness though having a character who's only personality straight is their queerness can be frustrating and yes, harmful to the queer community painting the stereotype. I agree, their sexuality should only come up as often as say a cisgender straight person (perhaps a little more depending on the circumstances)


However! it's like if I asked about fantasy books where the mc is a POC, or female protagonists, or something... That should not be their only trait... But the literature and representation behind it is sssooo important to know to exists and to expand it.

So, not sorry, but you're the one way far off in the wrong here... (@yesugei)

I can respect your opinion, even I do not agree. Perhaps it was a little rude, but you understood my point. Let's agree to disagree and move on. I have no interest in debating this with you lot. I merely voiced my opinion.
Four Topic Starter

LeDuc wrote:
Wow, I'm pretty late to the party!

One that really reached out to me was Eon: Rise of The Dragoneye (aka Tow Pearls of Wisdom).

The main character is [spoilers] a girl with a broken leg who passes as a boy in a brutally mysoginistic society so that she could bond with a dragon and become a Dragoneye. However, since she is the first woman to perform the bonding ritual in decades, her arrival awakes the dragon-dragon, who only binds with women, but hasn't had the opportunity to since they were disallowed to become Dragoneyes.

She suffers dysphoria from living as the wrong gender, she's helped by a trans woman (who never undergoes bottom surgery!) and an eunuch warrior who are deeply in love with each-other, there's a ton of morally complex characters, it's explicitly anti status-quo, all that jazz. Also there's dragons, so what not to love?

Funnily enough I'm pretty sure it was written by an old, white cis woman, so color me surprised with how positive the gnc representation is in this one. We've had at least one old, white cis woman who was really bad at this!


Aside!

This sounds incredible and I 100% need to read this.

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