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PorrainianPontiff wrote:
"My character doesn't want this thing"

And why doesn't your character want "this thing"?

It's because YOU don't want it for your character.

Not saying that's a good/bad thing. It's all dependent on context (and wherever people assume the worst to be frank). It wouldn't make sense for there to be fluffy unicorns and rainbows with my hellhound (not unless there's some VERY clever plot). But even a heartless monster can be intimate and affectionate (though I'm probably skipping candlelit dinners).

This is what I mean by context. You generalised. You didn't give me any specific examples. It's very easy to fear the worst when people generalise. And thus why "romance" may be unappealing. Because it's not specific.
DarkCrow wrote:
Taramafor wrote:
PorrainianPontiff wrote:
Do predetermined relationships turn anyone else off from a roleplay?

I see romance being a requirement and I almost always instantly click away. Not because I dislike romance but like, what if my character just doesn't like the other character in that way?

Excuse. We give our characters direction. If YOU avoid "that way" that's your CHOICE as a person.

My character does what they do because I DECIDE that. I CHOOSE to pursue those outcomes or/and otherwise "feel like it"

I personally would somewhat disagree with this statement; Personally, my characters are very distinct in their personalities, wants, desires, likes / dislikes, etc. And sure, I could make them go into a relationship that's a complete 180 from what they'd usually go for / enjoy, but then at that point, it feels less like them as their own personality, y'know?

Sure, some of the smaller actions I make my characters do, usually in relation to other characters and how they interact, can be me pushing towards my own OOC preferences for mush / angst / whatever, but if a person, regardless of their OOC preference for / against a type of RP genre, says "My character doesn't want this thing", that's not necessarily an excuse - they're just being true to how their character acts in certain situations / relation to other characters / etc.


Idk, maybe I just put too much stock (Wrong word? O.o) into my characters being their own people / personalities (up to a point, so long as OOC boundaries aren't getting crossed, etc. etc.)


I feel ya DarkCrow.

Just recently I tried hard to talk one of my characters out of doing something that was almost undoubtedly going to come back to bit him. But did he listen? Of course not.... ;)

Though, jokes aside, I think this is why I love the unexpected/unplanned romances so much. Two players writing their character as true as they can and, out of the blue, wham! Holy crap... <3
Was going to reply with a fun "how to make things happen with examples" comment but I been mulling this over some more and decided to address the situation more seriously.

Detailed answer first. Then I'll nutshell it after.

Detailed answer:
I think the issue is that people can focus too much on the "romance" part while overlooking the fun "bite in the ass" parts. You got to take the bad WITH the good. So it makes the good even better (this isn't just RP. It's a rule of life too).

Also worth noting the topic of sex is often something not discussed enough. This results in lack of "romance" often (both IRL and in RP). Very normal/common for people to lack intimacy due to lack of communication/activity on the matter. The people that look for romance can very easily overlook this and therefor lose what they seek out. Worth keeping in mind. I find that people that talk about "sex/intimacy" engage with each other (and maintain that) more easily then those that talk about "romance". People that go on about romance often seem to assume it translates to being "used". Which is definitely not the case a lot of the time (and is sometimes). Frankly, that's easily misplaced mistrust a lot of the time. There's also more scientific reasons. Like how that kind of activity produces a "happy chemical" which makes that feeling of "being close" happen (even if only roleplayed about and not done physically). I fully suspect this gets overlooked so I'm pointing it out. Very possible to be understanding with each other and make events happen quickly. IF you know how. And I fully suspect many people won't admit they don't know how too (because, frankly, they lack patience and brains and don't try to be understanding. There's no nice way of saying that).

Ultimately what it boils down too is that there are people that will deliberately hold back with your happiness. I'm more then happy to please, but "cake for cake", you know? You get what you give. You can determine this very quickly at times. It's simple. "Are they holding back?" If so do they mean to do it on purpose? You're ALREADY in a relationship the MOMENT you meet someone. The moment you affect each other. make the best of it. Don't hide behind safe labels.

Quick, clear precise communication (which in turn fuels intimacy/romance) isn't something easily done by most people. Because they're too "shy" or "Assume the worst" or whatever other reason/excuse that causes them to be close minded. It's honestly best not to overthink it and focus on the positives until you need a good communication talk. But know the flags/signs. if for example someone sees the worst of others that easily, makes assumptions after complaining about how you did it (hypocrisy) and quickly blocks at the first opportunity never claiming responsibility when looking for romance then are they ready to even interact with people at all? Let alone be in a relationship with them... Word of warning. Be very very careful with people that fear the worst and let it consume them. Or otherwise use their anger as an excuse. I can handle "toxic" even to extremes, but only through "presence". "Absence" is what leads to unresolved situations. I personally will always face my fears and look you in the eye even if I'm making a mess in my pants. it's the only way to establish trust and honesty. Not "flowers and chocolates".

Nutshell answer:
It's peoples fear and closed minded nature that puts fun, intimacy and romance in danger. It's fearing the worst of others easily that leads to negative events instead of positive. It's projecting from bad past experiences that leads to assumptions with missing context. I will gladly and happily let someone turn their back on me if they do that if we have no history. Better off without them. If you are someone I know I can, and will, pull teeth to push through that closed mind. And I always do because logic spares no one. Not you, not me. Not anyone. It does not take sides. your "feelings" and "emotions" are not facts. No more then mine. There's REASONS. Only in finding this is peace of mind obtained and happiness quickly made (I'm serious. Use. Your. Heads. Stop acting as if things happen by "magic" as if that's an excuse to not try and think).

Thus, if you want "romance" or "intimacy" (or any other kind of fun) simply be open minded. And consider what others say instead of complaining about it and saying you're right for the sake of it. I claim to be in the right too but I use logic and evidence to back up my claims. You are very much guilty of trying to be "in the right" as well but I can defend myself. Which leads to intimacy/romance if you're understanding. I miiight be projecting slightly. But let's be honest. Some people really do make you feel like crap when all you want is to be understood. And THEY'RE the ones seeking romance? Can I just point out the hypocrisy here? Of how someone seeks out something yet set that kind of example. When that happens it's no wonder people get turned off.
Taramafor wrote:
PorrainianPontiff wrote:
"My character doesn't want this thing"

And why doesn't your character want "this thing"?

It's because YOU don't want it for your character.

Er. I gotta pop in again for this.

No. My characters do things I'd rather they didn't. They reject/avoid/ignore things I'd like them to do. My perceptions do have influence over their choices, but I don't control their choices. I can also put ideas in their heads, or manipulate things around them, and I do technically have the capacity to decide something for them... but their choices are based upon what seems to make sense based on how they were defined and how they have developed, not based on what I want. I pretty much end my control at the decision to put them into a situation.

If you have more complete control over your characters, that's fine. Not all of us do it that way, though.
This one's a long one and also just me sort of giving my thoughts on a previous reply; Please feel free to skip if necessary because it has little / nothing to do with the original subject of this forum post other than just responding to other people's additions. :)

See more
Taramafor wrote:
Detailed answer:
I think the issue is that people can focus too much on the "romance" part while overlooking the fun "bite in the ass" parts. You got to take the bad WITH the good. So it makes the good even better (this isn't just RP. It's a rule of life too).
Can't speak on RL stuff, but considering RP is fake, people can enjoy whatever they want imo. If they want pure fluff slice of life with zero angst, anger / sadness, whatever, then that's fine. Some people enjoy pure fluff, others enjoy angst. "Overlooking" isn't necessarily a thing in this context - don't get me wrong, stuff can get overlooked, but if people want to go without the bad, in a fake setting, then they totally can lol

Taramafor wrote:
Also worth noting the topic of sex is often something not discussed enough. This results in lack of "romance" often (both IRL and in RP). Very normal/common for people to lack intimacy due to lack of communication/activity on the matter. The people that look for romance can very easily overlook this and therefor lose what they seek out. Worth keeping in mind. I find that people that talk about "sex/intimacy" engage with each other (and maintain that) more easily then those that talk about "romance".
Bolding was my own addition in this quote.

Not everyone wants / enjoys sex / sexual content, either RL and/or in RP settings. 👍 If sex is "missing" from an RP then that's up to both RP partners and generally doesn't matter about whether it's present or not, again, depending on the two people in the OOC seats.

Taramafor wrote:
Quick, clear precise communication (which in turn fuels intimacy/romance) isn't something easily done by most people. Because they're too "shy" or "Assume the worst" or whatever other reason/excuse that causes them to be close minded. It's honestly best not to overthink it and focus on the positives until you need a good communication talk. But know the flags/signs.

[...]

Word of warning. Be very very careful with people that fear the worst and let it consume them. Or otherwise use their anger as an excuse. I can handle "toxic" even to extremes, but only through "presence". "Absence" is what leads to unresolved situations. I personally will always face my fears and look you in the eye even if I'm making a mess in my pants. it's the only way to establish trust and honesty. Not "flowers and chocolates".
Alright, but some people aren't as good at communicating things as other people?
I mean, sure, clear communication is wonderful and definitely ideal and all, but it doesn't make them "Close Minded" to assume the worst of people. People have different life experience(s), different experiences both online and in RL, so we have no clue what makes most people suddenly ghost / assume the worst / be shy. Would it be great if everyone just automatically had open communication / pushed themselves to work towards that end goal? Sure! Does it mean that they're a bad person? Not necessarily.

Simply because you can "face my fears and look you in the eye even if I'm making a mess in my pants" doesn't mean everyone can.

Taramafor wrote:
Nutshell answer:
It's peoples fear and closed minded nature that puts fun, intimacy and romance in danger. It's fearing the worst of others easily that leads to negative events instead of positive. It's projecting from bad past experiences that leads to assumptions with missing context.
Again, won't speak to like, RL stuff here, but this is just writing. If someone doesn't want to RP romance and all the stuff that may / may not come with it, then that's just their business of enjoying what they enjoy and avoiding what they don't.

I used to exclusively avoid romance RPs for adventure RPs - it wasn't that I was scared or closed minded, it just wasn't what I enjoyed at the time. Not enjoying a certain type of RP doesn't "put fun, intimacy, and romance" in danger, it's just not their cup of tea.

Taramafor wrote:
I will gladly and happily let someone turn their back on me if they do that if we have no history. Better off without them. If you are someone I know I can, and will, pull teeth to push through that closed mind. And I always do because logic spares no one. Not you, not me. Not anyone. It does not take sides. your "feelings" and "emotions" are not facts. No more then mine. There's REASONS. Only in finding this is peace of mind obtained and happiness quickly made (I'm serious. Use. Your. Heads. Stop acting as if things happen by "magic" as if that's an excuse to not try and think).
Personal note: Respect people's boundaries. If someone left, there's a reason. Might be their fault, might be your fault, might be a "two to tango" situation, might be just circumstance with no one to blame, but if someone leaves an RP, whether we know them personally or not, that's their right to do so, even if it sucks some / a lot of the time.

Taramafor wrote:
I claim to be in the right too but I use logic and evidence to back up my claims. You are very much guilty of trying to be "in the right" as well but I can defend myself.
This isn't using scientific data, which therefore means that everything, so far, in this forum is purely based on everyone's individual opinions, which means that there's little to no logic here; Simply because you feel you're right, doesn't mean you are or aren't. c:

Taramafor wrote:
You are very much guilty of trying to be "in the right" as well but I can defend myself. Which leads to intimacy/romance if you're understanding.

[...]

Some people really do make you feel like crap when all you want is to be understood. And THEY'RE the ones seeking romance? Can I just point out the hypocrisy here? Of how someone seeks out something yet set that kind of example. When that happens it's no wonder people get turned off.
The bolding here was my addition because ???
I genuinely don't understand this statement / these statements tbh lol
PorrainianPontiff Topic Starter

I did not expect this to blow up nearly as much as it did. Actually, the fact that people are going so back and forth about this is actually hilarious to me. No offense, but I'm starting to feel the point of the post as a whole is kind of getting lost in the conversation and it's becoming something else entirely.


I'm not going to lie, I only skimmed through and half-heartedly read some of the post, but even from that I really feel this whole thing is kind of going off into left field. So I'm just going to throw a bit of personal experience of why I dislike romance being a hard requirement.


I often find that a story that can be a good story without requiring romance. Don't get me wrong, I love the princess bride as much as the next guy, but not every story has to be the princess bride. I do think it is nice if something like a romance is to form naturally, but if one doesn't then the story can still continue on unimpeded. To an extent I often find it to be a superfluous detail, but that doesn't make it bad. Romance like any other tool is a neutral thing. It can be done well and it can be done poorly. But ultimately it doesn't matter, in the end, the only thing that matters is that the people involved in the roleplay are enjoying themselves.

And it's that last part that really pushes me away from it being a hard requirement and why I almost never consider a roleplay that absolutely requires a romance. It is because it is possible that my character simply might not be romantically interested be it for personal reasons, cultural reasons, or other reasons. I have a few times had characters simply not be interested in a character because their personalities and interest didn't mesh very well. There wasn't any romantic chemistry because detailed interactions can be a complicated and nuanced subject that can be difficult to accurately predict in all situations.

I don't want to show up to someone else's roleplay, one in which they added romance as a requirement, and simply find out our characters don't exactly get along for whatever reason. To me, it feels almost rude to come to someone in that situation and not be deliver what they asked for. It could ruin the fun of the roleplay for them if they were really hoping for a romance that would never happen. I also will not change my character in any significant way to make it happen. I fully intend to stay true to my characters. That means some of those characters will always be hypocrites, racist, sexist, or even hold onto their cultural ideologies which could make romance difficult. A large part of it comes down to me not wanting to ruin someone's else fun because I don't give them what they were looking for in the end. I do it out of respect for the other person and respect for my individual characters.

It really is that simple. No greater thought behind it.
I don't want to ruin someone else's fun because I didn't deliver on a promise.
I don't want to change my characters to make something work when it normally wouldn't.
I don't want people to change their characters to make it work either.

As long as people are having fun, that's all that matters.
I won't judge how people chose to have their fun. I don't want to ruin that fun based on a promise I don't deliver.

Should a romance arise naturally I wouldn't have anything negative to say about it. Simply, so be it.
Sanne Moderator

Hi guys,

It looks like things are getting a little heated and the discussion is veering somewhat off-topic to the point where some members are expressing concern about the direction this is going. I'm going to go ahead and lock this for the time being, so the mods can take a closer look and review the situation to ensure that things stay civil and kind moving forward. :) Thanks for your patience while we discuss this!

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