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Forums » Smalltalk » I'm not homophobic, BUT... [what do y'all think?]

Character Fluid (played anonymously)

So I was browsing all the public forum RPs today and came across a thread with rules, one of those saying that LGBTQ characters weren't allowed because while the author wasn't 'against it', they were 'very uncomfortable' with it. Now, I wonder, what makes a person think an attitude like doesn't perfectly sum up what 'being against it' is all about?

Of course, people are allowed to have preferences- like, if you'd rather not have any robots, for example, in your high fantasy RP, you're of course allowed to say 'no robots- this is fantasy', but that's a whole different deal than banning something.. less fictional and arguably genre-bound. In 1x1 you can easily have a preference of having a FxM RP rather than anything else, but in a group RP that's rather weird, because you're also banning romances that you might not even be involved in, because even that would upset your stomach for some weird reason.

I don't like playing the part of sensitive snowflake, but I do find this behavior very disappointing; not necessarily the no LGBTQ-bit, because there will always be a) people who have no idea about what it is and how it works and b) downright horrible people that shouldn't be on this site to begin with, but the part that is supposed to clarify why doesn't make any sense. There's no valid reason to 'very uncomfortable' with something a person is born with, like a sexuality or skin color or tone of voice or whatever!

If I'm to think to reasons why LGBTQ characters shouldn't be allowed in a group RP, the only thing that comes to mind is the fact that the whole RP is only about playing canon characters that are straight, without adding any OCs or other canon characters that are not (like, an RP that's exclusively about Hulk, Iron Man and Captain America with no room for other chars).

What do y'all think about this?
As a pansexual, polyromantic, non-binary individual... I have specific genders I do not wish to write romantic stories about. Such as FXF. Does that mean I'm against it? By far not at all. Does this mean I'm uncomfortable writing it? Absolutely. Does that make me homophobic or sexist for not wanting to write this specific story type? No.

If a heterosexual, or heteroromantic, or cisgendered person who is not comfortable writing something that they do not specifically participate in, that does not make them homophobic or 'against' other people for having a writing preference.

If the rule is nothing more than 'I cannot write anything but cisgendered heteroromance because of my own comfort and interest' that doesn't make them 'against' anything. It's a preference, just like people cannot choose how they feel romantically or sexually towards other people.
It is a preference of the thread host. We are allowed to have preferences. While there is a major movement to be all inclusive, it doesn't mean that we are automatically against if we are made to feel uncomfortable. It could really just be that they don't write LGBTQ+ because of their personal preference. They could be cis and straight, and just not like writing it, or reading it.

They should have that right to stick to what they like, just as I myself do as a panromantic, demisexual man. Yes, they are hosting a group, but as the host, they get to set up the rules. All it means is that you or others that may just strictly write LGBTQ+ stuff don't participate. It's not necessarily a hate thing, so let's not jump on a bandwagon on either side of the coin. :) It really is just like not wanting robots in an rp.

To go a bit further, it's kind of like how we have preferences over who and what we find attractive. Someone may really just have a thing for Asian guys. Does it make them racist not to be into Black men? Nope! Just not their preference. Same thing applies here. The fact that they feel safe enough to voice that they feel very uncomfortable though, I think speaks to how safe the RPR can help people feel, which is tremendously lovely. Just as you yourself feel safe enough to post this topic with such an intriguing and almost line-walking title. XD

Let people be people. We all have preferences. <3
Character Fluid (played anonymously)

Yeah, I saw that, but what I'm talking about here is that the author is also banning other people, who might be comfortable with it, from writing it as a subplot within the group RP. I am aware that people are surely allowed to have gender pairing preferences, so does nearly everyone, but I'm not exactly sure if that should get into the way of other people participating in the same group RP. There's nothing bad about not wanting to write it, but banning other people from doing so is a tad weird and radical in my opinion, more so because any romance within that group at all would be kept PG anyway.

So, yeah, I couldn't agree more about that having personal preferences doesn't make you -phobic of anything different, it's normal, though should those preferences restrain the other players within the group?
Character Fluid wrote:
Yeah, I saw that, but what I'm talking about here is that the author is also banning other people, who might be comfortable with it, from writing it as a subplot within the group RP. I am aware that people are surely allowed to have gender pairing preferences, so does nearly everyone, but I'm not exactly sure if that should get into the way of other people participating in the same group RP. There's nothing bad about not wanting to write it, but banning other people from doing so is a tad weird and radical in my opinion, more so because any romance within that group at all would be kept PG anyway.

So, yeah, I couldn't agree more about that having personal preferences doesn't make you -phobic of anything different, it's normal, though should those preferences restrain the other players within the group?

Like I said, they are hosting, so they set up the rules. There are already groups on the RPR that have stipulations like this. People are allowed. If they host, they set the rules. It's like a DM making the rules of the campaign. You play in the campaign, but the DM has ultimate say.
Character Fluid (played anonymously)

Demilicious wrote:
It is a preference of the thread host. We are allowed to have preferences. While there is a major movement to be all inclusive, it doesn't mean that we are automatically against if we are made to feel uncomfortable. It could really just be that they don't write LGBTQ+ because of their personal preference. They could be cis and straight, and just not like writing it, or reading it.

They should have that right to stick to what they like, just as I myself do as a panromantic, demisexual man. Yes, they are hosting a group, but as the host, they get to set up the rules. All it means is that you or others that may just strictly write LGBTQ+ stuff don't participate. It's not necessarily a hate thing, so let's not jump on a bandwagon on either side of the coin. :) It really is just like not wanting robots in an rp.

To go a bit further, it's kind of like how we have preferences over who and what we find attractive. Someone may really just have a thing for Asian guys. Does it make them racist not to be into Black men? Nope! Just not their preference. Same thing applies here. The fact that they feel safe enough to voice that they feel very uncomfortable though, I think speaks to how safe the RPR can help people feel, which is tremendously lovely. Just as you yourself feel safe enough to post this topic with such an intriguing and almost line-walking title. XD

Let people be people. We all have preferences. <3

Whoops, totally missed your post while I wrote mine!

Well I do realize my whole starter post might have been a tad too overbearing? I guess I made a bit of a mistake voicing what I meant. Thanks for the replies anyway, I guess I'll go off now.
Character Fluid wrote:
Demilicious wrote:
It is a preference of the thread host. We are allowed to have preferences. While there is a major movement to be all inclusive, it doesn't mean that we are automatically against if we are made to feel uncomfortable. It could really just be that they don't write LGBTQ+ because of their personal preference. They could be cis and straight, and just not like writing it, or reading it.

They should have that right to stick to what they like, just as I myself do as a panromantic, demisexual man. Yes, they are hosting a group, but as the host, they get to set up the rules. All it means is that you or others that may just strictly write LGBTQ+ stuff don't participate. It's not necessarily a hate thing, so let's not jump on a bandwagon on either side of the coin. :) It really is just like not wanting robots in an rp.

To go a bit further, it's kind of like how we have preferences over who and what we find attractive. Someone may really just have a thing for Asian guys. Does it make them racist not to be into Black men? Nope! Just not their preference. Same thing applies here. The fact that they feel safe enough to voice that they feel very uncomfortable though, I think speaks to how safe the RPR can help people feel, which is tremendously lovely. Just as you yourself feel safe enough to post this topic with such an intriguing and almost line-walking title. XD

Let people be people. We all have preferences. <3

Whoops, totally missed your post while I wrote mine!

Well I do realize my whole starter post might have been a tad too overbearing? I guess I made a bit of a mistake voicing what I meant. Thanks for the replies anyway, I guess I'll go off now.

You, by no means, made a mistake by voicing what you said. In fact, I am glad that you are and that you did. <3 Your starter post wasn't over bearing, you were speaking your truth and how you feel. I want you to do that. You should always speak your truth. However, you are asking for thoughts on the matter, and I am speaking my truth. I am trying to help and give insight, not beat you over the head with a hammer. :)
Character Fluid (played anonymously)

Demilicious wrote:
Character Fluid wrote:
Demilicious wrote:
It is a preference of the thread host. We are allowed to have preferences. While there is a major movement to be all inclusive, it doesn't mean that we are automatically against if we are made to feel uncomfortable. It could really just be that they don't write LGBTQ+ because of their personal preference. They could be cis and straight, and just not like writing it, or reading it.

They should have that right to stick to what they like, just as I myself do as a panromantic, demisexual man. Yes, they are hosting a group, but as the host, they get to set up the rules. All it means is that you or others that may just strictly write LGBTQ+ stuff don't participate. It's not necessarily a hate thing, so let's not jump on a bandwagon on either side of the coin. :) It really is just like not wanting robots in an rp.

To go a bit further, it's kind of like how we have preferences over who and what we find attractive. Someone may really just have a thing for Asian guys. Does it make them racist not to be into Black men? Nope! Just not their preference. Same thing applies here. The fact that they feel safe enough to voice that they feel very uncomfortable though, I think speaks to how safe the RPR can help people feel, which is tremendously lovely. Just as you yourself feel safe enough to post this topic with such an intriguing and almost line-walking title. XD

Let people be people. We all have preferences. <3

Whoops, totally missed your post while I wrote mine!

Well I do realize my whole starter post might have been a tad too overbearing? I guess I made a bit of a mistake voicing what I meant. Thanks for the replies anyway, I guess I'll go off now.

You, by no means, made a mistake by voicing what you said. In fact, I am glad that you are and that you did. <3 Your starter post wasn't over bearing, you were speaking your truth and how you feel. I want you to do that. You should always speak your truth. However, you are asking for thoughts on the matter, and I am speaking my truth. I am trying to help and give insight, not beat you over the head with a hammer. :)

I'll be honest, this might be one of the wisest replies I've read on the internet. Maybe it is indeed pretty nice that everyone has their own truths, as you call them, and in this case and in the case of that thread I went on about, it is also pretty nice everyone has the liberty to express them. So, I know which campaign to steer clear of, but it's good to know that they might indeed not mean anything bad by making it as it is, which is also pretty nice to know.

So, thanks for the little wisdom & insight, my dude!
Character Fluid wrote:
I'll be honest, this might be one of the wisest replies I've read on the internet. Maybe it is indeed pretty nice that everyone has their own truths, as you call them, and in this case and in the case of that thread I went on about, it is also pretty nice everyone has the liberty to express them. So, I know which campaign to steer clear of, but it's good to know that they might indeed not mean anything bad by making it as it is, which is also pretty nice to know.

So, thanks for the little wisdom & insight, my dude!

Aww, you just tickled me pink and made my morning! <3

Absolutely that's what it is about! You can steer clear and get on with roleplays that are as inclusive as you like, and they can do whatever they like in line with their own likes. Everyone being respectful and having fun in the same environment. It's really a beautiful thing.

And if I may be so bold, I know you are on a character that is on anon, but if you'd ever like to drop me a note, feel free to do so. My inbox is always open. I may not be free to roleplay these days, but to chit chat, I'm game. :D
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say that this isn't a matter of preference to me - this is the same thing as saying 'no black people' or 'no women' because you're uncomfortable with it. Sound a little familiar? Just a teensy bit? There is absolutely no reason for a cis-hetero person to go to the extent of banning LGBTQ+ characters from a group RP; if I were to do this with either of the two cases I just mentioned, there would be an absolute uproar and that would be shutdown quicker than you could even post a thread about it.

But the problem that lies here is that a good majority of us who identify under the LGBTQ+ spectrum are used to this treatment, and thus when it happens, it's a 'well, I guess that's okay.' Cool group that you can't join because the creator 'isn't comfortable with LGBTQ+ characters?' Well, you're used to it, so you guess that's okay. It's just preference, right?

There's a bakery that you've had your eyes set on for months for a wedding cake, but upon going there, you get turned away at the door because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just preference, right?

You want to get married, but your state turns you away because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just a preference, right?

You see where this sort of thinking gets you? Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile - why, after everything that LGBTQ+ people have worked so hard for, should we allow such a blatant display of borderline homophobia like this? You don't have to be frothing at the mouth and in all forms of 'STRAIGHT PEOPLE ONLY' groups to be homophobic. It can be something as simple as closing LGBTQ+ individuals out of your group because you aren't comfortable with them, even though you're on a public site who has a very large percentage of those people. A site that, I might add, boasts about it's kindness and inclusivity.

I've been mistreated all my life for being gay in a very harshly religious and homophobic area. I've been outcasted, insulted, threatened with physical violence, and much more. Why should I come to RPR and see something like 'no LGBT characters I'm not comfortable!!' If I was someone just coming to this site, I would be turned away because that sort of exclusivity is something that hits hard, and there's a million other places I can go that would take care of that. I hold no grudge against cis-hetero people. I will write straight relationships. I will play male, female, and anything in-between to make them comfortable. Is it so wrong for me to expect that same courtesy? They don't even have to include themselves in any of that if they don't want to; tolerance is all I ask for. Someone writing an LGBTQ+ character in your group will not be the damn death of you. Gay, lesbian, transgender, asexual, pansexual, whatever - I think they can live with it.

I've lived with a straight dominated world my whole life. I believe that someone playing something like a gay character will not ruin their whole experience on this site. It will, however, ruin the experience of those looking for a safe place to go and write, where they can live out the fantasies that might not be safe for them to do in reality. It is our duty to teach our youth that they are free to express their sexuality and gender in any way they want; allowing someone to come in and shut them out is completely counterproductive to that.

But it's just preference, right? No harm done?

I am disgusted and disappointed by this behavior. I respect you for having the courage to bring this up.
red-veins wrote:
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say that this isn't a matter of preference to me - this is the same thing as saying 'no black people' or 'no women' because you're uncomfortable with it. Sound a little familiar? Just a teensy bit? There is absolutely no reason for a cis-hetero person to go to the extent of banning LGBTQ+ characters from a group RP; if I were to do this with either of the two cases I just mentioned, there would be an absolute uproar and that would be shutdown quicker than you could even post a thread about it.

But the problem that lies here is that a good majority of us who identify under the LGBTQ+ spectrum are used to this treatment, and thus when it happens, it's a 'well, I guess that's okay.' Cool group that you can't join because the creator 'isn't comfortable with LGBTQ+ characters?' Well, you're used to it, so you guess that's okay. It's just preference, right?

There's a bakery that you've had your eyes set on for months for a wedding cake, but upon going there, you get turned away at the door because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just preference, right?

You want to get married, but your state turns you away because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just a preference, right?

You see where this sort of thinking gets you? Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile - why, after everything that LGBTQ+ people have worked so hard for, should we allow such a blatant display of borderline homophobia like this? You don't have to be frothing at the mouth and in all forms of 'STRAIGHT PEOPLE ONLY' groups to be homophobic. It can be something as simple as closing LGBTQ+ individuals out of your group because you aren't comfortable with them, even though you're on a public site who has a very large percentage of those people. A site that, I might add, boasts about it's kindness and inclusivity.

I've been mistreated all my life for being gay in a very harshly religious and homophobic area. I've been outcasted, insulted, threatened with physical violence, and much more. Why should I come to RPR and see something like 'no LGBT characters I'm not comfortable!!' If I was someone just coming to this site, I would be turned away because that sort of exclusivity is something that hits hard, and there's a million other places I can go that would take care of that. I hold no grudge against cis-hetero people. I will write straight relationships. I will play male, female, and anything in-between to make them comfortable. Is it so wrong for me to expect that same courtesy? They don't even have to include themselves in any of that if they don't want to; tolerance is all I ask for. Someone writing an LGBTQ+ character in your group will not be the damn death of you. Gay, lesbian, transgender, asexual, pansexual, whatever - I think they can live with it.

I've lived with a straight dominated world my whole life. I believe that someone playing something like a gay character will not ruin their whole experience on this site. It will, however, ruin the experience of those looking for a safe place to go and write, where they can live out the fantasies that might not be safe for them to do in reality. It is our duty to teach our youth that they are free to express their sexuality and gender in any way they want; allowing someone to come in and shut them out is completely counterproductive to that.

But it's just preference, right? No harm done?

I am disgusted and disappointed by this behavior. I respect you for having the courage to bring this up.

100%~
red-veins wrote:
Yeah, I'm gonna have to say that this isn't a matter of preference to me - this is the same thing as saying 'no black people' or 'no women' because you're uncomfortable with it. Sound a little familiar? Just a teensy bit? There is absolutely no reason for a cis-hetero person to go to the extent of banning LGBTQ+ characters from a group RP; if I were to do this with either of the two cases I just mentioned, there would be an absolute uproar and that would be shutdown quicker than you could even post a thread about it.

But the problem that lies here is that a good majority of us who identify under the LGBTQ+ spectrum are used to this treatment, and thus when it happens, it's a 'well, I guess that's okay.' Cool group that you can't join because the creator 'isn't comfortable with LGBTQ+ characters?' Well, you're used to it, so you guess that's okay. It's just preference, right?

There's a bakery that you've had your eyes set on for months for a wedding cake, but upon going there, you get turned away at the door because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just preference, right?

You want to get married, but your state turns you away because you're gay. They're not comfortable with your identity. It's just a preference, right?

You see where this sort of thinking gets you? Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile - why, after everything that LGBTQ+ people have worked so hard for, should we allow such a blatant display of borderline homophobia like this? You don't have to be frothing at the mouth and in all forms of 'STRAIGHT PEOPLE ONLY' groups to be homophobic. It can be something as simple as closing LGBTQ+ individuals out of your group because you aren't comfortable with them, even though you're on a public site who has a very large percentage of those people. A site that, I might add, boasts about it's kindness and inclusivity.

I've been mistreated all my life for being gay in a very harshly religious and homophobic area. I've been outcasted, insulted, threatened with physical violence, and much more. Why should I come to RPR and see something like 'no LGBT characters I'm not comfortable!!' If I was someone just coming to this site, I would be turned away because that sort of exclusivity is something that hits hard, and there's a million other places I can go that would take care of that. I hold no grudge against cis-hetero people. I will write straight relationships. I will play male, female, and anything in-between to make them comfortable. Is it so wrong for me to expect that same courtesy? They don't even have to include themselves in any of that if they don't want to; tolerance is all I ask for. Someone writing an LGBTQ+ character in your group will not be the damn death of you. Gay, lesbian, transgender, asexual, pansexual, whatever - I think they can live with it.

I've lived with a straight dominated world my whole life. I believe that someone playing something like a gay character will not ruin their whole experience on this site. It will, however, ruin the experience of those looking for a safe place to go and write, where they can live out the fantasies that might not be safe for them to do in reality. It is our duty to teach our youth that they are free to express their sexuality and gender in any way they want; allowing someone to come in and shut them out is completely counterproductive to that.

But it's just preference, right? No harm done?

I am disgusted and disappointed by this behavior. I respect you for having the courage to bring this up.

This is exactly how I feel. It's one thing not to be comfortable with writing same sex or same gender romance, at one point in my life I wasn't really into writing m/m romance because I felt more comfortable writing female bodied people or women, however... banning any LGBTQ+ characters, and potential lgbtq+ romance from happening in a GROUP RP, is absolutely prejudice and not 'preference'.

I disagree with the idea that someone making a group that excludes lgbtq+ characters and romance between them is 'just a preference'. Excluding lgbtq+ characters from a group RP is no different than excluding black characters, female characters, and disabled characters.

It's one thing to not want to write f/f or m/m romance yourself, but to not allow other people in the group from doing so? Not acceptable at all. What if a character is bisexual, are they allowed but only if they are in a opposite sex relationship?

I'm saddened by hearing about this, seriously.
People are allowed to say they'll only write MXM or FXF, or LGBTQ+ stories and refuse to write with heteroromantic cisgender characters, but they can't say they're uncomfortable writing or reading LGBTQ+ stories and prefer to have their own safe space to enjoy their own preferences?
Demilicious wrote:

To go a bit further, it's kind of like how we have preferences over who and what we find attractive. Someone may really just have a thing for Asian guys. Does it make them racist not to be into Black men? Nope! Just not their preference.

This doesn't have to do with the origin post but I had to say something. I'm really very saddened by this bit here. It's actually a huge issue for someone to be 'not into black men' and not into black people in general, and also a problem to 'just have a thing for Asian guys', actually. Very problematic. It's similar to how so many people are 'just into fat girls' and that's why they like me, which is painful, almost as painful as the whole 'just not into fat girls' thing, which is also problematic.

It's one thing to not be attracted to a specific person or a few people, and they happen to be fat, black, ect. It's another thing to just say in a generalized sense 'not into black people' or 'not into fat people' ect. Having a generalized sense of attraction that excludes minority groups especially is a part of the problem when it comes to racism, fatphobia, and even internalized homophobia, ie: 'only into real queers and not bisexuals' or 'only into butches'.


Hadeslicious wrote:
People are allowed to say they'll only write MXM or FXF, or LGBTQ+ stories and refuse to write with heteroromantic cisgender characters, but they can't say they're uncomfortable writing or reading LGBTQ+ stories and prefer to have their own safe space to enjoy their own preferences?

They have their own safe spaces everywhere. It's worth mentioning in my post that I said I read and write heterosexual stories, did I not? 1x1s are also different than group RPs, where there are multiple people involved and literally nobody is forcing you to be involved in a LGBTQ+ romance.

Restricting it to straight characters if it's just you and someone else? Sure, whatever. Doing the same in a group? Unacceptable.
Perhaps everyone should also very much remember the fact that absolutely no one but the original poster here is only giving us hear say on what this group is actually claiming to be okay with.
red-veins wrote:
Hadeslicious wrote:
People are allowed to say they'll only write MXM or FXF, or LGBTQ+ stories and refuse to write with heteroromantic cisgender characters, but they can't say they're uncomfortable writing or reading LGBTQ+ stories and prefer to have their own safe space to enjoy their own preferences?

They have their own safe spaces everywhere. It's worth mentioning in my post that I said I read and write heterosexual stories, did I not? 1x1s are also different than group RPs, where there are multiple people involved and literally nobody is forcing you to be involved in a LGBTQ+ romance.

Restricting it to straight characters if it's just you and someone else? Sure, whatever. Doing the same in a group? Unacceptable.

Plenty of people restrict groups to being LGBTQ+ only and don't give attention to or accept cisgendered hetero people. :/ You completely dismissed and ignored my question.
Hadeslicious wrote:
People are allowed to say they'll only write MXM or FXF, or LGBTQ+ stories and refuse to write with heteroromantic cisgender characters, but they can't say they're uncomfortable writing or reading LGBTQ+ stories and prefer to have their own safe space to enjoy their own preferences?

They are allowed to want it and ask for it, just like someone is allowed to say they don't want a group with any characters of color - but they aren't allowed not to expect people to have opinions on it, and feel hurt by the discrimination.

Also no one said that someone isn't allowed to have preferences but I think self reflection on why someone feels this way is what's needed. It's not the same to only write f/f in a 1x1 RP as it is to say, make a group and only allow lesbian characters into the group. That would also not be okay. Just as only allowing heterosexual characters into a group, is not okay.

Yes if a group is meant as a support group, for lgbtq character, then heterosexual characters not being allowed would be fine and vice versa, but if the group is just a group meant for normal, regular, just fun RP, then it is in fact discrimination to not allow characters of certain sexuality.
Hadeslicious wrote:
red-veins wrote:
Hadeslicious wrote:
People are allowed to say they'll only write MXM or FXF, or LGBTQ+ stories and refuse to write with heteroromantic cisgender characters, but they can't say they're uncomfortable writing or reading LGBTQ+ stories and prefer to have their own safe space to enjoy their own preferences?

They have their own safe spaces everywhere. It's worth mentioning in my post that I said I read and write heterosexual stories, did I not? 1x1s are also different than group RPs, where there are multiple people involved and literally nobody is forcing you to be involved in a LGBTQ+ romance.

Restricting it to straight characters if it's just you and someone else? Sure, whatever. Doing the same in a group? Unacceptable.

Plenty of people restrict groups to being LGBTQ+ only and don't give attention to or accept cisgendered hetero people. :/ You completely dismissed and ignored my question.

I answered your question entirely and provided the criteria in which it would be acceptable. Also, not giving attention to...cisgendered hetero people? The entire media is focused on that. They aren't the minority in this case. Should we shut down all groups that revolve around minorities, like those for supporting different ethnicity, simply because the majority isn't the focus of them?

Link me one single RP group where no straight characters are allowed. You'll be hard pressed to do so, unless it's a support group.
Again, my actual point is looked over and ignored. Have a great day. I hope you all can find your peace.

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