Forums » Suggestions & Development Discussion » Gen-"AI" warnings?

seconding that i'd love the option for people to be able to tag an entire profile as being generated by AI, and for individual gallery images to be tagged as AI. i have very strong negative opinions about AI that i think some people have already stated here, so i won't devote a lot of time to doing so myself. i think that if you support AI this will be a good feature also, because you can find other people that haven't written their own characters and you guys can tell chatgpt to write your posts back and forth for each other and make all of your art lol

seriously though, im an illustrator and a writer. i prioritize practice and hard work at skills that i am not good at. i've spent years working on my writing and visual art. i have been a member of RPR off and on since i was 12 years old, writing and drawing my characters and making profiles for them. i PRACTICED at it. my first profiles were HORRIBLE and uninteresting, my artwork was also absolutely heinous! i find it to be lazy and honestly cowardly in a way to use AI to generate anything about your character, whether it be things written in the profile, visual representations, or your posts themselves. i'd rather see someone do "poorly" at writing or drawing their character than ever rely on something that steals aspects of what it is using from other artists/writers to create whatever end product you request from it. i'd rather see someone try their best and grow, rather than have their hand held through a creation process that they learn nothing from because it was all done for them.

and, if you "can't draw"? COMMISSION REAL ARTISTS. artificial intelligence is already ROBBING them of work. if you don't want to apply yourself to visual art, and learn and practice, fine! but at least support actual visual artists!!!

i personally also dont find it stimulating or fun whatsoever to engage with someone who... didn't even write their character. it literally, to me, rips the soul right out of text-based roleplay. if i could avoid all of that and only interact with other creatives, as opposed to content that honestly doesn't feel ensouled, i would really love that as an option.

(to clarify, things like avatar creators (picrew) dont bother me, because a real person made that and released it for others to use, for free. each thing you see in a picrew maker was drawn by an actual person and as long as credit is given with a link back to the avatar creator, i dont see an issue. other things like heroforge, again, were coded and created by an actual person. not the same thing as artificial intelligence stealing millions of pieces of artwork not intended for that purpose and smashing it all together to make a picture of a jacked lizard or what have you.)

A lot of the pro-"AI" arguments, including the wishy-washy stances, are entirely disingenuous or arguing about definitions as if it's not clearly understood what we're talking about. Arguing about definitions is a tactic to waste time that could be spent being productive, so let's not fall for it.

Creatives and "AI" users will always have a divide because the latter can only exist by causing harm to the former. Both camps know this, but only "AI" users benefit from pretending that there is no harm.

Other people setting boundaries on who they want to play with is not bullying. People not wanting to play with users who use AI generated content is their right as much as it is your right to continue using AI on RPR.

It's not really relevant if you see it as being an issue or not. It's a very real and big issue for others that has already affected their real lives in very tangible and staggering ways. You not seeing that or experiencing it doesn't negate the consequences AI has on others. It's not fair to others to prioritize you wanting to feel more comfortable with your voluntarily choices at the expense of others being subjected to something they don't wish to engage with because of the real life effects it's had on their lives.

Part of what makes us a safe space is that we require transparency about what people do and use. Again, this is about people being allowed to maintain their boundaries in an enforcable way. A lack of transparency basically makes it impossible for people to enforce their boundaries.

Free stock photo websites are a thing we, both the moderators and the community as a whole, have been encouraging for this purpose for many many years. All you have to do is ask where you can find alternative images. I use free stock photography for a lot of my characters. For those for whom I can't I commission artists to make a drawing for me.

And when I can't commission artists I use free stock photography as a placeholder for the icon, which doesn't have to be a face, it can be anything. Even just an image that suits a moodboard for the character.

You can find images for your characters that are not AI generated here:

https://unsplash.com/
https://pixabay.com/
https://www.pexels.com/

And for creating your own versions using existing photography, you can download a free image editing program like GIMP or Krita to make it happen.



The bottom line is that a warning tag is just that: a warning tag. I'm not sure why people being allowed to maintain their boundaries and you being required to ensure they can puts you on the defensive so strongly that you equate it to bullying, but I think it's worth taking some time to think about.

Oh a and just to respond to this, we have made tools available so that only people within your own age group can contact you which enables you to maintain your boundary of only roleplaying or speaking with adults.

Hey people, it kind of makes me sad seeing that breach widening between all these great writers. Really, the more I read, the more a tear shows in my eyes. Please…

Artificial Intelligence will for the next years be in everyone’s mouth, for sure. But I dislike the way this discussion turns, at the end there will be ‘war’ between pro and contra, don’t let it get this far.
All of you have an interesting view of what it is and what AI implies. I’m in the middle as I can create my own art and be ‘satisfied’ with this or that AI picture (ok, I’ll return to scetching).

And to get back to the initial idea of this thread, the demand for a ‘warning’ when AI is used. I think this is necessary! If it is for those who use, those who accept to see and those fully against. No discussion here of how far AI is implemented or not in this or that feature, no discussion of ‘voluntary’ or ‘sensed’, just the discussion of accepting or not.
The way this ‘warning’ will be realized might depend on our beloved moderation team and the one realizing it, please cherish Kim for that.
Thanks for reading

😢

Wow. This sure blew up since I last visited. Not sure where the angst is coming from on both sides of the issue. AI comes in two basic flavours ... Graphics and Text. If you don't want to RP or associate with AI graphics, then scroll on. No harm done either way. If you don't want to write with AI text generated replies and you suspect your 'co-writer' is doing just that. Talk about it OOC just like any other issue that may come up between writers. If it isn't resolved to your satisfaction, then end the RP.

I guess I'm one of the 'weird' ones the OP is referring to in my saying that it is an issue of individual responsibility and common sense to make the AI determination on a case-by-case basis. I' not "against" it; I personally can't clearly see how an "AI" warning would work. It would be either up to the content-creators who use AI to voluntarily activate the aforementioned warning boxes on their characters, or up to the site admin to 'police' created characters that use AI to have the warning activated for them. Seems a heavy burden to put on the site staff to me, but since Kim the site admin can see it working out, then cool. I hope it all works out for the betterment of the site.

Okay, so let me try to explain this better as I'm not trying to waste time, be disingenuous or play devil's advocate. This is clearly a touchy topic and right off the bat the fact that people are clearly upset by it proves my point. Some of the objections feel like an attack because of the whole "I don't want to have anything to do with anyone that uses 'AI trash'. That's ostracizing in itself.

The other root of the argument is "I want to be able to know if I'm not sure looking at something on someone's profile." That means we need to be able to clearly identify what was or was not done by AI.

Here is what I'm afraid of:

You only have to label what was actually done by AI (I guess chat GPT?). However, avatar makers are okay. So, let's say there are several images on one of my character's profiles. They aren't labeled as AI, because they were not made with AI, but someone sifting through your characters finds some images and they aren't labeled as such. So they call a mod. How is that going to work?

Moderator: Hello, we received a complaint about some of the art on your character "Mary Sue". Specifically images 3, 5, 7 & 9. You'll either need to show me what app, software or program you used to make these or you'll have to label them as AI content.

Again, in some instances, I don't know or am not sure if it is AI or not.

Going back to why having an AI tag is a problem- "The scarlet letter". Look at the hostile attitudes toward anyone that isn't 100% anti-AI. Thus, the home owner analogy or not feeling welcome. I've never had any issues with anyone and I've been here 7 or 8 years now. Right now, I'm feeling judged for raising concerns. I think bringing up potential unintended consequences of a new policy is a valid.

How does the specific example above play into this?

Here is the other bigger question I have. I have standards for who I roleplay with, too and I 100% support people having the right to choose, but keep in mind there are public OOC areas and groups for both public OOC and IC groups. Are those people who have AI tags on their profile going to be potentially unwanted in those situations? That's probably my biggest concerns, and yes, these are legit. Not trying to waste time:

Example 1:

An OOC book club or recipe group. The owner feels very strongly about people using AI not being genuine. "After reviewing your application to the group, we have chosen to reject you because you have AI images on some of your characters.

Example 2:

A large group roleplay on a group not in the public area for an RP for something like a high school, town or Star Trek space crew. "Thanks for applying, while the character you applied with does not use AI, some of your other characters do, we don't want AI users joining our group."

Now before anyone says that is ridiculous, I have seen groups do the same thing about Trump. support. I want to be clear, I do not support MAGA or Trump, but this topic seems to be polarizing to the point that some members seem to want nothing to do with something they don't like. These are 2 examples I could see happening and that's where the exclusion, prejudice can be a problem.

I think both examples are moot points. Group owners are already allowed to decide who gets to join their group for whatever reason. It's only an issue if it's discriminatory about things people don't choose, i.e. their gender, their ethnicity, things about who they are that they can't change.

Using AI is a choice. It's not something you're born with or can't change. Therefore it's not an issue because Group owners are already filtering out who gets to join based on similar conditions. I remember a group that disallowed any character that did not have a photo face claim for their character. Are you saying they're bullying and alienating people who don't like using face claims too?

I'm not a staunch opponent against AI as a rule of thumb, but I understand why people are. And I think as decent human beings we can encourage users to be honest about their AI use to find other users who enjoy AI generated content in their RPs and simultaneously allow others to avoid interacting with people who don't share that interest.

If and how we mods can enforce that on a moderator level is something that's still under discussion. But I don't think it's fair to be upset that people who don't want to interact with users that utilize a tool which has caused real and genuine harm to some of the very people who have responded on this post, want a way to filter that content out more easily.

There's a reason people have these feelings towards AI. I highly recommend trying to understand why these feelings exist and are so strong and show empathy and understanding for it.

Using AI remains a choice. The effect AI has had on people was not a choice they opted in to.

Edit: I also question the choice to use Trump supporters being denied access to a group as an argument against AI warnings. Denying fascists who want people like me dead sounds like the only correct choice to make???

I agree with your last point, Sanne 100%. I guess the concern comes down to given the very strong opinions of those who are very anti-AI, are people going to put these two things into the same bucket? And while it is still in discussion, I just am asking that Kim and the mods factor in what I'm saying. That's it. I'm not trying to be difficult, I swear. Honestly, I find AI is really getting out of hand on Facebook, so I definitely see the downside. However, I don't see AI as 100% bad or evil, either. I think there can be some positives with it. I'm okay with disagreeing on that previous statement just as long as it can be a reasonable disagreement done in a respectful manner without shamming people or ostracizing them in the process.

Exclusion of those who use AI is a lesson, not a harassment. Think of it as the same as a group having a post size limit or a PG-13 and below rating for their RP. These things encourage creativity.

Find visual references that don’t steal from actual artists and you won’t feel so labeled as a thief. AI generated images are just stealing commissioned/private work with extra steps. 🤷🏻

Only stepping in to say that I don't think accusing people who don't like the use of AI art of possibly conflating those people with those who advocate for the deaths and oppression of minorities is a good idea.

One is refusing a cup of tea; the other is refusing a cup of blood. People who simply advocate for human creativity and setting boundaries is not confusing these two cups.

The starting topic was about a warning tag anyway, not about aggression against it. I've been unable to RP with people since they want real face claims and not cartoon images. Yeah, I'm very proud of those images; the artists and myself have done hard work for them. That's also why I'd like an AI art warning tag, too. I appreciate people's effort in their artwork. Plus, I can't say I'm enthusiastic about the idea of our art nor my writing getting scraped either.

But that's a preference. I'm not going to accuse people who use AI for art or prefer face claims of being the same kind of evil as fascists. That's kind of a big leap, isn't it? Just my 2¢!

I'm for the idea of putting a warning on gen-ai things. on occasion i use ai like goblin.tools to help me better word emails, or break complex steps into simple ones and like organize my thoughts. That's proper use of the tool in my opinion. But like, writing entire rp posts at me? generating images that has been known to steal artist work right down to the signature? as an artist? That's a huge no for me. My income has dwindled to 0 for the past year because of the prevalence of ai and many close friends replacing me with AI.

I roleplay and collaborative write and create with people for the spontaneity and human interaction and interpersonal relationships. If i wanted to play with a computer, I would play videogames or be an author and write stories on my own. Playing with someone that relies on AI for posts, character creation, and everything is not what I'm here for and is not a good match for me. Its like dating, I have a right to reject and filter out people who will not meet my needs and or be a bad match for me.

Wait ... wait wait wait. Hold on a moment. So ... Are you comparing yourself to fascists because people don't want them around? That's who you choose to compare yourself to? That ... that is a lost argument if I ever heard one.

Not gonna lie, that's pretty embarrassing.

Okay, I'm gonna close this discussion now.

It will not be 100% enforceable by anyone, includings mods. Some people are going to choose to lie, and there won't be a lot we can do about it. This is true about a lot of things. Even so, we can still set the social expectations that we do expect honesty. We encourage it. It is a social ill to refuse, even if we can't stop you.

If you want to maintain full access to folks who don't want to interact with AI, then the choice is still available to you to just not use gen-AI. There have always been a lot of free tools for making ethical character images of one kind or another, and they're all still out there.