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Forums » Art & Creativity » OFFICIAL CONTEST: Bad RP Habits Turned Good - 2016

Kim Site Admin

dragon-secretary.pngComplaining about bad habits or over-used character types seems to be a popular past time on any RP site, but many of us also have stories about absolutely loving a RP that was chock full of characters or habits that sound "bad" at first glance.

Maybe it was a sparkly vampire that was played so brilliantly it all suddenly made sense. Maybe it was an encounter with someone who played overpowered characters, but in a way that generated interesting plot twists and allowed other players to take the spotlight and shine.

This year's essay topic is: The biggest bad RP habits that I've actually loved.

In 400 to 1000 words, explain how even some of the worst sounding ideas can turn out great with proper handling. Examples featuring people that are not yourself are encouraged.

Grammar and spelling are important in this contest. Please proof read your entries before posting them!

Rules
  1. The essay must be entirely your own work. HOWEVER, you may have friends proof-read your draft to help you catch spelling and grammar errors.
  2. Essay should be between 400 and 1000 words.
  3. Please keep your subject matter PG13 and in line with all of our site rules for public portions of the site.
  4. One entry per person. You may make edits to your entry until the deadline.
  5. Contest runs from April 24th until May 17th
  6. After the contest closes a team of judges will score the essays and prizes will be handed out. Good luck to everyone!

Prizes
Deadline
The last day to submit your essays is on May 17th.

This contest is being managed by Loki. Please direct all questions to her. :)
Now that I finally remember a fitting scenario, it's time to get writing! *cracks fingers*
I'm so in on this one, I know one or two bad and overused habits that turned amazing real quick.
Kim Topic Starter Site Admin

I can't wait to see what everyone comes up with! :D
I already wrote a good portion when I was at home before the Russian trip. Gotta polish it a bit and then post it~ When I get home to my laptop that is
Basalt

This is a phenomenal idea and I wish I'd noticed it sooner!

A personal favorite is finding another player whose lifestyle is active and demanding. Not only do they bring so much to the table creatively, they understand when I'm delayed between posts and plot continuations since I'm a serial hobbyist and workaholic. The best is when we come to encourage each other's pursuits outside of writing. No frustration, only patience and appreciation for one another. Seriously, "too busy" writers are the bee's knees!
Kim Topic Starter Site Admin

Bishop wrote:
This is a phenomenal idea and I wish I'd noticed it sooner!

A personal favorite is finding another player whose lifestyle is active and demanding. Not only do they bring so much to the table creatively, they understand when I'm delayed between posts and plot continuations since I'm a serial hobbyist and workaholic. The best is when we come to encourage each other's pursuits outside of writing. No frustration, only patience and appreciation for one another. Seriously, "too busy" writers are the bee's knees!

You still have until the 17th to enter, that's not quite three weeks! :D
After a long deal of thinking and writing, I've finally come up with an essay! Special thanks to SeraphicStar for double checking on my typos!

Here goes!


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The story of the Spotlight Thief

Before I begin I should say that this is possibly one of the hardest things to write about. It's difficult to find the positive in something that is so incredibly annoying and off-putting like a bad RP habit. However, I definitely enjoyed the challenge! Finally, after a long while thinking about it, I think I have found a good example. It is possibly not the rarest occurrence, but it was one that I had the most fun with.

To tell this tale, I must take you back to the time when I was active on Furcadia. I was just becoming better at the art of roleplaying and I had found an excellent Dream to better hone my craft. If I get any names wrong, please forgive me. This must have been six or seven years ago. A lot has happened since then. I believe the Dream was called Greenroot Forest. It was a very refreshing concept of a Dream, where your characters were trapped in a haunted forest. There were quests that if solved would heal part of the woods, and these changes were actually implemented within the Dream, which gave a real sense of accomplishment during our RP sessions!

However, this story is only partly about Greenroot Forest. My focus will lie on a person who frequented this Dream about as much as I did. For easy reference and to protect his identity, let’s call him Sir Goddamnitwhywouldyoudothat, or Sir Why for short. That’s certainly something I asked myself when playing with this guy.

Sir Why was a roleplayer who had been going at it for many years. He seemed to expect players who had just begun to look up to him like some sort of god on the matter, despite his character being the cookie cutter, emotionally damaged, anti-hero type warrior looking for the evildoers that killed his parents as a kid. I’m pretty sure he was secretly a demon as well, but I forget. Now, a cliché isn’t necessarily a bad thing if you play the character well. Sir Why didn’t.

The cardinal sin Sir Why was guilty of was stealing the spotlight. In the Dream we had agreed on the fact that our characters wouldn’t die during these RPs. We grew attached to them and didn’t want to see them go. My stance on this has changed over the years, but back then I really didn’t want to create a new character to just to continue the story. This was a bad idea, because this gave Sir Why a carte blanche on rushing into dangerous situations with disregard for his own safety or that of his companions! All in the name of looking like a badass and wanting to swing that Muramasa of his. Come to think of it, that sword might just be where the demon trope was hiding.

Needless to say, after about five sessions in a row of this happening, we got pretty tired of it, including the Dream owner. Our characters were reduced to the role of backing up the self-proclaimed “main character” when things became overwhelming. A fun and interesting idea was quickly diminished in the worst way possible, for none of us had the guts to actually call him out on it.

However, the owner, being also the storyteller had a stroke of genius. Nina, if you ever read this, you’re a freakin’ legend!
At one point our group came upon a witch’s cabin in a more corrupted part of the forest. Of course Sir Why kicked down the door with his sword drawn, but the witch seemed like a kind old woman. Our characters were invited inside and after a long session of apologizing for the broken door, we were offered some tea. The witch had placed two cans with liquids on the table.

Sir Why became instantly suspicious of the cans, and proceeded to grab a can for himself to drink from first, chugging it all down. OOCly Sir Why’s player figured that even if the tea was poisoned, he wouldn’t die. It would yet be another show of strength for him. We were ready to collectively roll our eyes once more.

But the tea wasn’t poisoned.

In his rush, Sir Why picked the wrong can, and before the witch could even stop him, he was turned into a frog.

For the first time in a while, we all had a good laugh at the comedic scene. For once, Sir Why being in the spotlight was a good thing. It had opened the gate for our storyteller punish Sir Why’s behaviour in an amusing way rather than to simply tolerate it!

Ever since that fateful visit, it took a while for Sir Why to figure out that stealing the spotlight was no longer a positive situation for him. He got spray painted, bombarded with dung, grew a pig’s tail, got slapped in the face by a Goblin, and many more hilarious things.

To some, this might sound like bullying. And after a while I did start to feel bad for Sir Why. It was one thing to have a bit of payback, but it seemed like we were making him out to be the butt of all jokes. But to my surprise, he enjoyed it!

Sir Why’s player felt like he was actually playing an interesting character now that he had such weird things happen to him. He liked having comedic things happen to him rather than bad things he inevitably would have survived. OOC we got along with the player better as well, and finally gathered the courage to tell him that taking up the spotlight like that simply wasn’t fun for the other people involved. He himself admitted he understood that then, but if we were to tell that to him in the beginning he’d probably have disregarded it.

In conclusion, Sir Why’s player became a better roleplayer and friend all at once thanks to that Dream, and our amazing storyteller’s way of dealing with bad behaviour. I myself learned that there is always a better way to deal with negative behaviour than to downright ignore it or get angry and ruin the experience for yourself. To this day I still keep this message to heart.
The Eerily Accurate Vampire

To create my mindset surrounding the controversy of vampire characters, I will state just one word; Twilight. Ever since that preteen movie series pushed sparkling emo biters into the brains of adolescents everywhere, the portrayal of vampires in any kind of literature suffered a major blow. I enjoyed the series when it first came out, but as I grew older I decided that I just didn't like the taste that Twilight vampires left in my mouth. I thought the side abilities were cool, but I didn't approve of the rest. Therefore, for the longest time I held a leery opinion of vampire characters; the ones I encountered were either emo and melodramatic with dark hair and a bleeding 'woe is me' heart, or strangely peppy with no struggles in regards to sunlight.

And then I met Lucian.

Lucian was not Edward Cullen. Lucian embodied the most wonderfully portrayed vampire character that I ever roleplayed with. Not only did he hold a majority of classic vampire traits (aversion to sunlight, certain metals burning, eerie mind manipulation and seduction abilities), but he was downright insane. Living for such a long amount of time, surviving on the blood of others, will do that to a person. Lucian, however, was not the obnoxious insane. He was the clever insane. He tittered, he cajoled, but he also inadvertently seduced, desired blood, and was well aware of his own evil. It was fascinating to watch him struggle with the voices in his head as he interacted with my human character. There was no ‘shoulder angel’ or ‘shoulder devil’; It was all absolute vampire in multiple facets.

The character that I thought would be annoying and troublesome to RP with, just because he was a vampire, soon became the very character that I was begging to roleplay with at every chance. Lucian spoke and behaved like an enigmatic character from a Shakespeare play. He fit the timeline perfectly, he wasn’t emo or melodramatic...in fact, he was oddly chipper, with little tidbits of insanity sprinkled throughout his actions and words. He never failed to give me something worth replying to. I hung on to every word in every post, drinking in the beautiful vocabulary and the scintillating (not in the Cullen way) character that was Lucian. From mistaking a scarred human girl for a moon goddess to buying cakes from a baker, Lucian did everything with an ounce of insanity. He skipped along lantern-lit streets, sang lullabies in German, and came up with a nickname for every single person he met (my character’s nickname was Sweet Mother). As sweet and innocent as he seemed, however, he was not above biting necks and ripping creatures apart limb from limb. You never wanted to mess with Lucian’s loved ones, or else you were going to end up in pieces all over the street. And he’d probably sing cheerily while doing it.

Lucian changed vampires for me forever. Wicked, malevolent, kind, seductive, innocent, every possible aspect rolled up into one pale-skinned, red-eyed creature of the night. I doubt there will ever be a vampire that comes close to Lucian, but in the meantime, he has certainly taught me not to judge a book (or a vampire) by its cover. Just because Stephanie Meyer twisted the original concept of vampire doesn’t mean the whole world will. It restores my faith in the writing community, if only a little. Learn from my story, and keep your eyes open. You just might encounter your own Lucian without even realizing it.
Sanne Moderator

Once upon a time, there was a cliché...

If there's one thing I used to avoid like the plague, it was clichés. From the fateful romantic encounters that led to 'happy ever after', to the invisible, unimportant average Joe becoming the hero the kingdom had been aching for, it didn't really matter to me if the characters were interesting or not. If the suggested plot was boring and had been done a thousand times before, it made me turn up my nose and walk away.

I'm not entirely sure why this was. Perhaps these stories felt like easy ways to avoid the responsibility of creating a real and genuine plot, filled with unexpected twists and drama that was difficult to predict and therefore more fun. Looking back on my experiences, perhaps it was the fact most players who were drawn to this type of roleplay were inexperienced, often breaking tons of common courtesy rules as they went along.

The only thing I know for sure today is that I likely missed out on dozens of amazing roleplaying opportunities by behaving like a snob! I took the chance one day, to engage in a roleplay with a friend who proposed a cliché story: a fateful encounter that led to a dramatic romance with hurdles to overcome and a villain to beat.

I must admit, at first I was very skeptical. My friend is a good writer and creates many wonderful stories that I enjoy reading. This was the only reason that motivated me to give this a try because I'm sure anyone else would have received a rejection from me.

Words cannot adequately describe how the roleplay we had together blew my mind. It was one of the most engaging, thrilling and dramatic roleplays I've had in my life. We explored the darkest corners of our characters' minds, developed them in ways I'd never dreamed of and concluded the story with a bang that put the grandest of fireworks to shame. I cried, laughed and contemplated my existence over this adventure we had. Nothing could have prepared me for the impact a cliché could have on my life.

What my friend taught me about roleplaying is that it's not the clichés that make for uninteresting stories and next to no character development. It's the way you handle and mold these overly done concepts that make or break them. Whether it's a cliché character or a cliché plot, in writing you have the ability and chance to add your own little twists to them, until you create something that is epic beyond imagination.

Most importantly, my friend taught me that you should always be willing to give something a chance. You should never forget that you have the power to turn any situation that appears bad, bland or off-putting into something magnificent by unleashing yourself unto it. There is enough creativity and inspiration in all of us to direct our characters, and ourselves, into a place of wonder and joy.
Uncertain I did this right, but...

Not So Obvious

Like any "veteran" roleplayer, I learned a great deal through both trial and error and the example of others. Much of it helped me to learn and grow as a roleplayer, writer, and person - but a few things have also lead to biases. In my journeys through the internet, bouncing from site to site, some of what I picked up was what (and who) to avoid. I learned to see certain character types, certain patterns of behavior, and certain writing styles as warnings that I'd do better to avoid playing with some particular person.

And then I learned that judging like that often wasn't fair. One of the greatest examples I've had of that fact was someone I'll refer to as "Wolf."

I first saw Wolf well after my biases had set in. They struck me as too excitable, with characters who were bombastic stereotypes of a sort that made them difficult to place in an RP. I watched others squirm away politely as they could while Wolf struggled to set up an awkward plot in a way that sounded perhaps a little too controlling.

Eventually, shortly after I had created a new character, I noticed that it somewhat fit the sort of plot Wolf had spent the most time pushing for. I didn't have anything else to do with the character just yet, but I did want to use it, so I decided to contact them. Right from the start, laying out a basic plot was suddenly easier now that it was along the lines of something Wolf had already been looking for. A few misunderstandings kept things a little shaky, but Wolf proved to be very open to both my antics and my little corrections, taking it without the slightest hint of complaint.

The story that unfolded was admittedly messy, but it was honestly fun. Their character still seemed to be an over-the-top stereotype, but it worked well and actually built up some wonderful drama when that character's worldview was challenged. It was so fun, in fact, that it didn't take long for Wolf and I to start up another game after that first rapidly-played little story had come to a close. And another. And another. We started talking frequently outside of RP as well, sometimes plotting things out and sometimes just chatting, and a great deal of the little problems we had at the start smoothed out. And as we talked and played, more and more I started noticing subtle little things about Wolf's characters, things that were not outright stated, but were present. The insecurities. The little habits. The secret dreams. The clear differences between their personalities. The things that made all of Wolf's characters so much more real and alive than they were first presented had been there from the start, but I had to learn to see them. From what was meant as a one-off to kill some time, I received an intense, extended story that is, perhaps, the greatest roleplay epic I have yet been involved in.

Now? I'd say embrace the weirdos with the stereotypes and the awkward characters that don't seem to fit anywhere. No, not all of them will work out, but some can be absolutely amazing.
Controlling Characters

Early in my days of roleplaying I dealt with being the person that seasoned roleplayers hated. It wasn't long before I picked up on what I wasn't supposed to do and what I was supposed to hate. Over the years I refused to play any further when people broke "the rules", the biggest of which was godmoding in the form of taking control of my character.

A few months ago this changed drastically. I had entered into a roleplay with someone I knew from a friend of a friend. This person came highly recommended and I decided to give them a chance. We exchanged many, many emails as we got to know each other and the world we liked to play our characters in. As we were playing in a canon world with both canon and non-canon characters, I have grown used to some mild control being given up for canon characters. The emails we exchanged included many, many things about our characters and their motivations. Finally, after weeks of correspondences we began to actually play.

The initial emails were long at first, but began to taper off slowly as less exposition was needed. As it happened, a new scene was coming up. My partner sent me an email asking me "May I take control for the beginning?" I resigned myself and said yes, though I assumed I was going to be backing out after I received the email.

When the email came, it was long, well written and more surprisingly, my character was well within her normal actions, feelings and thoughts. This is a character I have played for well over ten years and another person was able to read my character enough to give her motivation for a scene, give me something to work with and to get me excited about the next step. Normally I wouldn't trust another person to control my character, but in the end, I learned a lot about my character. Ultimately I would be reluctant to try it with another person, but with this experience I'm no longer going to write someone off until they've done more than make a request and try to make their writing better by learning so much about a character.
On Immortality and Tragic Backstories

You know that one little cursed yet blessed gift that most people will dream about yet never really want to happen? Yep, I mean immortality. In the hands of the wrong people or the wrong ex-mortal, it can grow into a tired cliché real quick. And if you give them a tragic backstory of how they earned it, the results can border on the edge of groanworthy.

You know some of the kinds of characters immortality can produce: moody or torture-happy personalities with the ability to live forever granted to them or forced on them. Usually, it's the latter. Other than the tragic past and the brooding personalities, there was little to no cap on their other abilities, and no unseen depth. I admit to being guilty of this kind of character building at times, especially for villains. But when I first started to roleplay, it frustrated me to see these kinds of characters, over and over again with little to no variation. In fact, I was so frustrated that I was close to tossing any concept of immortality for my own characters in the garbage and avoiding any "immortals with bad backstories." But, just like there's those types of immortal characters that can strain your last nerve with their bittersweet or sadistic moods to match their horrid pasts, there are those who take those blessings and curses and blur the line.

These players use the magics (or sciences) of immortality and the tomes of history, molding them into multifaceted characters with endearing and unexpected personalities to counter their bitter pasts. They're a nice reminder that the goods and bads of immortality are not always clear cut. And if you play them well, they truly come to life and etch themselves into your memory for as long as their eternal lifespan. In my roleplaying time here on RPR, I had the good fortune to run into a player who reminded me what it means to make an "immortal character" and make them entertaining to play with. I also remembered why immortality is still such a sought after power to this day, regardless of how it's received.

This person's character building resulted in bringing forth... An oddball sort of guy: dimwitted, unpredictable, and quick to flee. But how he depicted this character's goofy attitude and demeanor made me forget he was immortal. The way he attained his "gift" was excellently explained and believable (which was also a thing that irked me, but that's for another time); by reading his profile then roleplaying with him, I soon saw the tragedy, fear, and self-loathing that comes with living forever that was truly understandable. It even felt relatable to me. His character development made me forget why I even hated the concept in a way I barely see anymore: This player didn't rely on a foul mood or a bitter outlook on life to balance the tragic past and what immortality could bring with time. He relied on stupidity. Ample amounts of stupidity and hilarity in a light-hearted character that is seldom witnessed nowadays, I think. And it worked. I saw the humor and the strife blend together into a character I couldn't predict. I didn't know what they could say or do next. And my character had an eternity to spend with this lovable, mysterious doofus. I loved it.

I learned that immortality is a neutral trait: neither good or bad, no matter who has it or how it's gained. It's why people still wish for it or dream about it to this day. How players portray this gift in character development is what makes a character memorable or forgettable. Roleplaying with them made me reconsider tossing my characters' immortality in the garbage. I wish to see more characters like this for inspiration, not just for myself, but for others when creating non-deity immortal characters. I want to see characters that don't represent immortality with heavy, dark moods and a tragic past... But people who hide that tragedy under or twist it with tons and tons of comedy and light nature.

Our roleplay is the longest one I've had on RPR. And I can't wait to keep up with them for an "eternity" to come.
An adventure to remember

Well, let's just say that when we RP, we always have those usual sets of rules that we prefer. You might not state them outright in your seeking post, but you know you have some rules whether it be about the post length or the type of characters you'd prefer for your partner to use. These are the most common things I see added into a topic of seeking a game.

During my first years of being a role player... Well... These kinds of things hardly even existed. All I did was look at the ideas others had come with and then throw my colorful dog character at them - no blaming, having the most abysmal and brightly colored dog animal was the idea of the site. Nevertheless, if I was lucky enough to be chosen, the game would not be going on for more than a few posts. I have no idea why, but sadly, that was the norm of the sites I was on. Finnish sites at least.

Once my English skills had started to develop, I started seeking out to role play on the English forums that I was a part of. Role playing was definitely only a little extra feature on the side with those sites, but had a surprisingly strict set of rules. It was super hard to get into any game with those, so you were better off starting a whole topic of your own. When I did manage to get into one however, I was completely ignored and no-one in that big game actually wanted to pay any attention to me. Eventually I gave up and let thought of RPing die as a whole.
That was until I'd find something that I ended up and continue to cherish to this day.

If I were to tell you, that setting rules for your game might not always be the best thing for the game you're proposing, would you believe me? Sure we might all know that having too much rules can be harmful, distancing, and eventually lead you to feel that you can't even write your character breathing unless the other person specifically allows you to. But there has to be some basic sets of rules for the RP to actually function properly, right?

Typically, the first thing we do when starting to look for an RP partner, besides the actual plot idea itself, is to start laying down some rules. You want to role play with a person that writes long paragraphs in third person, posts quickly and well maybe you'd want to just keep it a one on one play? You write those down, set down the rules and start waiting.

So... What do you recon will happen if we throw out all the rules? And I don't just mean a few like the post length or type of character you can apply with. I mean all of them. You go ahead, start a topic, leave it open, invite a few friends or strangers and just let it develop on its own. The first thing you write about in the intro post could be something as simple as your character waking up in the morning or being nervous about their upcoming show in few hours. And the next thing you know, there are nuclear warheads blowing up everywhere and your character's daily routines are thrown out the window for they now need to evacuate to a whole other planet. You might not have been expecting it, but that's what makes it all the more fun!

Sure it is great to just have a specific setting, you want your knight character to do all these heroic deeds in the period referred to as the Middle Ages, or you want your dragon character to roam freely and conquering all the villages on its path. You want to keep it all restricted, you go for the same types of RPs over and over again because that's just how that character works. And there is nothing wrong with that.

But once you've tried the "no set rules, all players allowed, final destination" you have gotten a glimce of what you could truly call "an adventure". There is never a way to tell what you are going to get, it could be good, it could be bad. But this is where the creativity of your partners is truly put into spotlight. It might start a little slow, or it could start with a bang. Either way, as the story progresses, you might discover sides that you never once knew about your character because you never simply had the chance to try it out before. Maybe you'll create an NPC that somehow ends up on coming back again and again, becoming a whole new character of their own? It's all indeed possible, and my character Christofer Markov is a living proof of that.

So maybe, at some point, if you have the guts it takes and time for it, give it a try. Just grab one of your characters, write a starting post that can be anything, inform other peoples that you are going for it and wait. You never know what you might get, but it is worth testing out. Who knows, the adventure you're getting yourself into might just surprise you! Just remember, not everytime will be successful, but when it is, it might just be an adventure to remember.
Mitchell (played by SanityCatch)



Hello, there. My name is Mitchell, but most people just call me Mitch. I am a socially awkward scientist. Is that stereotype cliche enough? What socially awkward person sits around and writes about themselves? Well, this really has very little to do with me. This story is about how one cliche plus another [more skillfully played!] cliche, does not equal cliche squared. Somehow. This is about someone I met many years ago, and how his cliche was anything but.

Imagine, if you would, that you are on your way home one evening after a long day of school and night of work. You are exhausted. Suddenly, there is a seemingly drunken man spinning about like a fool while holding onto a lamp pole, asking you where the most expensive bar is. Were you gullible enough to answer? Great, now he is insisting that you join him. Then he is talking and forcing you to speak. There may even be some liquid courage involved on your part at this point.
At some point the bombshell is dropped. This is not just any stranger. Your drunken light-pole dancer is a Greek God. Now, not only is that absolutely ridiculous, but it has to be the worst cliche ever. [Drop a god into an RP? Well that just guarantees 'God Modding.' Look, it is right there in the name.] Greek Gods in mythology were all the same! They manipulated the mortals to do their bidding and ultimately discarded them like a used match. Nothing more than a brief chemical reaction that quickly fizzled and was useless.

For some reason, I neither had the man committed nor ran screaming for the hills as most sane people [and RPers] do when confronted with claims of godhood. The Greek God turned out to be a highly interesting and multi-faceted man, and the only godly miracle that has happened is that he is still around. Thinking of the son of Persephone and Hades *cough*Istillthinknot*cough* probably conjures a pretty specific mental image. Other than being extremely attractive, they are likely all wrong. This particular Greek God enjoys painting, puppies, and Monster High dolls. He hardly ever uses whatever powers he may have to manipulate others, saying he respects people more than that.

On a personal note, this not-so-cliche Greek God has also worked wonders to help me become a slightly-more-tolerable member of this world. Being shy and quiet was never an option around him, and my go-to topics of time travel and alternate dimensions are "boring" to a God. For once, there was someone who understood but simply did not care all too much about the subject. Instead, he pushed to know more about me. Demanded real conversation. He even forced me out into the world to interact with others, because who can say no to someone who is trapped in the underworld for half of the year when they want to go out?

What could have been a complete disaster several years ago is still one of the most important moments in my history and surely the history of many others.

[Not only has this "cliche" character become anything but and brought out the best in some of my characters, but the player has always seemed to be a master at combining unlikely characters in order to push them to a new level of development. Thank you, Loki!]
Great entries everyone! This contest is officially closed! Winners to be contacted in a few days :)
Kim Topic Starter Site Admin

The winners got notified some time back, but I figured I'd post in this topic since it will be awhile before the winning essays are published in the news. :)

In first place is Rynh
Second place we have Novalyyn
Third place we have LightSide-Lotus
Fourth place we have Cacophony

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