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Forums » RP Discussion » Top Three Qualities to Make a Great Villain?

Hi everyone,

I was thinking on how to write a more villainy character, and doing some research and I've come across a few useful things when I realized I have the most resources accessible right here - the pool of RPR writers. Even though I'm quite new to roleplay, I've become a great fan of it, because I think it offers so much in terms of trying and testing ideas, so I am launching this little stone into the pond:

What are from your roleplay experience the top three qualities which make the most credible and enjoyable villains?

Thank you in advance for your response! <3
By "credible" do you mean "I can believe someone like this exists" or "I can understand their reasoning?"

There is a ton of overlap, but they aren't the same thing. ^^;
LakotaSiouxWarrior

Fear intimidation ruthlessness. My character Judas Iscariot Jones is my ultimate villain. Along with his infamous name.
Here is what I think about the qualities of villains since being a villain is a matter of perspective after all.

1. Like any good character a villain needs to have realistic, within reason, strengths and weaknesses. Certain characters like gods or fantasy races have different factors to consider but they are not all infalliable or perfect. A good balance of traits I think is a must.

A great villain, in my opinion, is someone I find myself rooting for. They need something that makes them more relatable to us even if they are some fantasy race, god, or alien. Struggles and joys in their life. As humans, and writers, we need to have connections with the people and world around us including the villains.

2. Reasonable and more realistic goals. Something that motivates or drives them to pursue this path in life. Yes, they can have lofty goals that seem unobtainable or stretch the imagination but they should also have smaller goals they can accomplish easily enough. Say like recruit a henchman or find a base oc operation. Small successes here and there can really add depth to a character and interactions. They may not have conquered the world but they caused damage to have a lasting impact.

3. The most important one I feel is having a good hero to oppose them. Someone that gives them a real challenge to overcome or fail against. It adds depth and grit to characters.

There is a quote from Dragon Age: Origins that I wish I could find to get it right but it is something like this...

The quality of a man/woman is determined by the quality of his enemies.
DorianM Topic Starter

Thank you for the replies! <3

@Novalyyn - either would work for the question, but I am most interested in a villain people would empathize with and root for, someone they may become themselves if they are not being careful. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right? :)

@SexySultryBabe - thank you, ruthlessness is definitely on my list!

@Krispythekritter - thank you! some of the good articles I found suggested the same thing; which is why I am so tempted to build an honorable villain who is capable of good and well as evil!
Seth

I have to agree with the realistic reasoning and motifs as a good trait to be have, villains who act on random acts of malevolence and sporadic out of context deeds are very boring and short lived. Even DC's Joker who is praised as a 'random' sort of character has a deeper background and reasons that leads to his actions. Is your villain the insane type? Tell me how he went insane, make him believable.

The perfect villain (for me) would be the one which the reasoning is presented so flawlessly you cannot help but root for them, sometimes they are simply doing the right thing on the wrong way. Don't we all root for Avenger's Loki after we realize what he went through? Some even sympathize with him. The newest addiction: Black Panther's Killmonger who may not be so charismatic has very strong racial reasoning to his acts. I'm not too much into star wars but I can see why people root so much for the sith, as the whole "don't feel" things from the opposite side is overwhelming.

I hope I did not use too much examples that are unknown to you, but the overall idea is: SHOW, don't tell. Don't tell me why your villain hates X, SHOW me why. Show me how X affected their life, how it scarred them leading ultimately to their acts.
Goals, goals, goalsssss.

I think that applies to any character but especially villains. And please, don’t do anything without reason. If your villain is going to do bad things, for the love of Mother Mary, fit the plot.

Also, I think it’s fun to explore the “whys” and perhaps give the impression that once they weren’t always like this. It makes the reader feel a little conflicted if they sympathize with your bad guy.
DorianM Topic Starter

Thank you both!

@Seth - yes, totally aiming for the reasonable villain and the backstory which got them where they are today!

@vic_c - goals and small victories, to validate their path towards the dark side, yay!

which reminds me of "come to the Dark side, we have cookies" (unknown)
A reason! I find the best villains (and I don't make many) are those who were never really supposed to be villains in the first place. The way things progressed in their lives led to a reason or reasons for them to do whatever villainous behaviors they are perpetrating. They are real people (alien human or etc) who were wronged or felt wronged enough to turn on someone or something because they were hurt, or betrayed, and maybe now they just want to make it right. Or maybe they think they are the good guys by doing what they are doing.

Idk like I said I haven't made a lot of villains, but the 'bad guys' in my personal stories tend to follow this method for construction. Hopefully it helps, otherwise just ignore me. :)
A truely memorable villain is not just a character, but an experience all in itself. Think of it as a weaponized charisma that paralyzes everyone just from stepping into the room. Darth Vader, Jason Vorheez, and many interpretations of the Joker have this quality. When they don't see you, you might have a chance, but once they step into the room, all hope is lost. If you can associate a villain with the feeling of doom itself, not just the idea of it, but that chilling gut-feeling that you have no chance, that is another great avenue for a villain.

The best way to create this feeling is to give your villain some significant and persistent advantage over the hero. After that, just put the hero in the way of whatever the villain desperately wants.
Discussions (played anonymously)

Villain that is relatable/rootable:

Motives that stem from past trauma, is the villain to a hero/heros who are egotistical and not very perfect themselves, is charismatic in some manner, doesn't take pleasure from sexually assaulting or murdering people. Even though they are classified as a villain, most deaths related to them were unplanned or absoluately nessesary - see 'villains plan doesn't actually include killing hostages but heros literally mess everything up'

I personally will never root for a villian that rapes or takes actual pleasure in murdering.
DorianM Topic Starter

Thank you all! I like the discussion progressing:

@Voldarian_Empire - I would totally go for a justifiable villain; some of their goals and means may be honorable but somewhere around there a line gets crossed or several, and it's a slippery slope!

@ConnanBell - I'll definitely put down memorable as one of the more essential qualities for a great villain! :)

@Discussions - I like the idea of the villain not intending some of the actual consequences of his actions, but triggering the set of events which place them in the category of the villain and then just not being able to escape them!
I haven't roleplayed much with villainous characters, but out of my favorite traits of just villains in general, they are:

1. Sympathy
Either being a sympathetic person or the roleplayers/audience can sympathize with the villain. It's something that I find makes me more attached to them, either because I can understand where they're coming from (verging on empathy) or because I pity them and wish they weren't evil or something similar.
2. Mortality
I like human villains. Villains that could've been just another person on the street. They breathe like us, they die like us. Humans are kind of really scared of dying, so I think when that fear is brought to a much sooner scale, it becomes more real and can push the villain to do more or do certain things.
This one's a kinda trash explanation but hopefully, you get what I'm tryna say.
3. An Insight into Their Head
Not really a trait, but I think it's really enjoyable when you get to see the thought process behind the villain's actions, especially if it's warped. Like they have their own narrative where, you know, like they believe they're right when they're just really messed up. I think that villains that think rationally are kind of boring, so I tend to side more to ones who think they're thinking rationally. Not like they're insane, 'cause the Madman sort of trope just doesn't catch my eye. Delusion mixed with psychopathy, though? Heck yeah.

I know it's not exactly what you asked, but I hope it helps!
DorianM Topic Starter

tisonlychaos wrote:
I haven't roleplayed much with villainous characters, but out of my favorite traits of just villains in general, they are:

1. Sympathy
Either being a sympathetic person or the roleplayers/audience can sympathize with the villain. It's something that I find makes me more attached to them, either because I can understand where they're coming from (verging on empathy) or because I pity them and wish they weren't evil or something similar.
2. Mortality
I like human villains. Villains that could've been just another person on the street. They breathe like us, they die like us. Humans are kind of really scared of dying, so I think when that fear is brought to a much sooner scale, it becomes more real and can push the villain to do more or do certain things.
This one's a kinda trash explanation but hopefully, you get what I'm tryna say.
3. An Insight into Their Head
Not really a trait, but I think it's really enjoyable when you get to see the thought process behind the villain's actions, especially if it's warped. Like they have their own narrative where, you know, like they believe they're right when they're just really messed up. I think that villains that think rationally are kind of boring, so I tend to side more to ones who think they're thinking rationally. Not like they're insane, 'cause the Madman sort of trope just doesn't catch my eye. Delusion mixed with psychopathy, though? Heck yeah.

I know it's not exactly what you asked, but I hope it helps!

Thank you! That is perfect. <3 You should write a villain BTW, we'll talk. :)
DorianM wrote:
tisonlychaos wrote:
all the stuff i said

Thank you! That is perfect. <3 You should write a villain BTW, we'll talk. :)

:O I should. Maybe soon; I found some cool names recently. ;)
So a few people touched up on this, but the biggest thing a villain needs can be summarized as this: A good, perfect villain is one where, in their view of the world, they are the protagonist. Their goals and expectations should not only be realistic, but understandable, at least do a degree. Often times, it could easily be that they could the hero, but some event or some quirk dialed their moral compass a different way. Sometimes, the line is blurred as to who the hero and villain really is. However, that's simply the morality aspect of it, there's also what that villain brings to do the table.

1. A good backstory.

We, as thinking beings who move through time, are the sum total of our life, biology, and experience. A perfect example of a character with a good backstory would be Killmonger from Black Panther. Killmonger grew up in the American hood and endured the systemic racism around him, on top of his father being killed by the former Black Panther and him being left alone. This created a view that not only did these injustices need to be stopped through any means to prevent more suffering, but that Wakanda's state of isolationism was complicit in this. This not only shapes his views, but creates a character that can empathized and perhaps even sympathetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GGbHtKmobQ

2. An understandable worldview.

Now the go to in popular times right now is Thanos from the Avengers movies, but Thanos still has a lot of 'evil' and problematic aspects around him. A character who, I feel, epitomizes this most is Griffith from Berserk. Growing up a street urchin, Griffith always wanted a throne. With it, he wanted to end the injustices of the world with it. He's seen morning the death of a child soldier on the battlefield, as well as helping those who can't help themselves all the time. In the eyes of anyone other than the mostly the protagonist of Berserk, Griffith would be seen as a hero. Griffith IS viewed as a hero, and a practical messiah. His villainy comes not from darker intent, but he himself openly stated he would stop at nothing to obtain his goal. If it required a mountain of corpses to get to that throne and end further suffering, a pact with demons, and sacrifices even his closes friends, Griffith would do it.

(Avoiding showing a video example because Berserk is a gruesome and violent anime/manga with lots of R depictions).

3. They must challenge the hero at their very core.

One of the simplest aspects of a villain is also its most fundamental. They must pose a serious obstacle to the hero. Be it because of their superior power or similarity in ethics that causes the hero to question themselves. The hero must change something about themselves in the wake of their villains (getting stronger, learning something new, approaching it with a different perspective during their encounter).
DorianM Topic Starter

Kamizombie wrote:
... they are the protagonist (...) what that villain brings to the table.

1. A good backstory.
2. An understandable worldview.
3. They must challenge the hero at their very core.

Thank you! I would like to develop the last one, which seems incredibly important. The villain, in a way, defines and shapes who the hero is as the story develops, right? The hero-who-started is not the same to the hero-who-ends, he must be somehow profoundly marked and changed by the experience. Would that bring him closer to the villain, aka into grey area?
DorianM wrote:
Kamizombie wrote:
... they are the protagonist (...) what that villain brings to the table.

1. A good backstory.
2. An understandable worldview.
3. They must challenge the hero at their very core.

Thank you! I would like to develop the last one, which seems incredibly important. The villain, in a way, defines and shapes who the hero is as the story develops, right? The hero-who-started is not the same to the hero-who-ends, he must be somehow profoundly marked and changed by the experience. Would that bring him closer to the villain, aka into grey area?

Not necessarily. Some villains cement a hero's good idealogy. Darth Vader to Luke Skywalker, for example. The third film was spent grappling with Luke's idealogies and walking the balance between light and dark sides. While it did indeed bring Luke closer to Darth Vader in terms of familiarity, understanding, and indeed even a bond, the impact Darth Vader had on Luke Skywalker only cemented his views as a paragon of good.
Late to the discussion, but this is my take on the subject (taken from an article I wrote for another rp community). I don't want to spam the thread with a huge post, so this is just a part of article, and if anyone wants to read the whole thing, you can check it out here.

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What makes a 'Villain'

We covered the Heroes Journey. But what about the Villains Journey? Surely there is a pattern there, as well? And you'd be right. In many instances, the Villains Journey is the Heroes Journey in reverse. If we look to literature and film, when we watch or read superhero comics, we are focused on the rise of a Hero. But the Villain has already existed, and they have, in many cases, been in power far longer than the Hero has even been doing his save the day routine. So the question is.. how did the Villain get to where he or she is?

And how can we relate to them?

Fact of the matter, what makes a 'good villain' is its ability to, like with the Hero, resonate with us on an emotional level. Villains have drives, they have goals, they have their own stumbling blocks and triumphs. But how do you connect with a bad guy, you might ask. Make them human. Remember that to a Villain, in most cases they are the good guys. Their perception of reality is that they believe whole heartedly in what they are doing. They don't see that they are hurting people, they see a roadblock to their 'better future'. And if they do understand they're causing pain.. they just don't care. In many cases, the Villain is just a fallen Hero.

And even sociopathic characters and psychopathic characters can have qualities about them that make you understand where they are coming from. These qualities resonate within the audience, make the character feel real. Make us empathize with the character.

And that makes us terrified because it shows us a dark part of ourselves that we would otherwise want to remain hidden. It reminds us that, for all the good we strive to be, there is something wrong in us. When writing characters, that 'seed of evil' exists, too. It is a temptation for the Hero to overcome. It is that binding point, cliche as it is, where a character is left thinking 'what exactly separates me.. from this monster?'.

This is the Villains Journey.


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Quote:
How then can a Villain character, a construct so many people view as cut and dry 'evil', be something that can be related to?

In the same way as a Hero, we must give the Villain flaws and reasons. If the audience can understand the Villain, not for his crimes but as a person, for his passions, for his beliefs.. for just that small moment, we understand.. and relate. We don't agree with what he has done. But everything he has done makes sense, and with clarity comes many things: Acceptance, understanding, sympathy, sorrow, pity. We feel for this person. We hate them. And we hate them more for making us stand in their shoes for that one moment. Because in that one moment.. we understand that in another time, another life.. we could be them.

More than just flaws, the Villain needs positive traits, as well. A flaw makes them human, but a positive trait makes them enjoyable. If the audience is given reason to like the character, it makes the turn around, that big reveal of their intentions all the more shocking and provoking.

A Villain, like a Hero, needs an origin. A reason that sparks their fall. Were they always a twisted person? Did someone keep them from descending into that madness? Did the Villain lose that barrier between 'good and evil'?

Did they love? Have they lost? Have they been pushed to their last leg?

Were they obsessed? What caused the obsession? How can you, as the writer, make the audience relate to that obsession and drive?

Are they capable of redemption? Is there something in their Journey that might make it possible for the Villain to stumble upon some revelation that turns their views on their heads? Or will this revelation only push them over the brink and into the Moral Event Horizon?

What are their morals? How have they changed? A villain is not a stock asset to just be copy pasted into a story, they need to live their own lives on and off screen, they need to breathe, feel, laugh, love, hate. They need to have their own moral compass, and it needs to make sense to their personal story. They have their own kind of integrity and beliefs that justify their behavior. Embrace that in your writing.

A villain needs to be authentic. They need to follow through with their intentions. If they say they will kill someone, write it.

A villain needs to be the challenge to the Hero. That is the driving aspect of plot in these kinds of stories. If a Villain is not given some manner of expertise or power that needs to be overcome, the story will fall flat. But likewise, don't MacGuffin this knowledge or power. It needs to be believable to the character. In the same vein, a Villain needs their own personal challenges to face. This is an important aspect of making the character Three Dimensional and not feeling and acting like a wet paper towel. If you can poke a hole into the character and it falls apart, you haven't done your job as a writer to build that characters foundation.

As a writer, one of the biggest themes to play upon in any narrative are emotional. Fear, hate, the unknown. A Villain knows this as well. It can be an important aspect of their personal story, overcoming that emotion and turning it against others.

So. The question now is this.

What will your Villain's Journey be?


(Still ended up being a big post, collapse tags go!)

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