Kim wrote:
LightSide-Lucree wrote:
So +1, as long as it's done in a practical way. But I do like the idea of taking a photo of your ID while adding your RPR # and making a hand signal. But I do have one question: when it comes to photo IDs, would it be fine to squiggle out the picture, or would that be an issue? Some people may be okay with sharing everything else on their ID except how they look.
I honestly don't have an answer to this yet! I'm going to guess probably no, we'd ask that people not do anything to hide or change portions of their ID. All I can do is promise not to share the photo with anyone, ever.
Wait, so would you be keeping the ID on file? The only site I know that offered this sort of ID verification always discarded the files after the verification. It would be even illegal to keep them on file where I live (European Union) to protect the individual whose ID it is.
Alecia wrote:
Kim wrote:
LightSide-Lucree wrote:
So +1, as long as it's done in a practical way. But I do like the idea of taking a photo of your ID while adding your RPR # and making a hand signal. But I do have one question: when it comes to photo IDs, would it be fine to squiggle out the picture, or would that be an issue? Some people may be okay with sharing everything else on their ID except how they look.
I honestly don't have an answer to this yet! I'm going to guess probably no, we'd ask that people not do anything to hide or change portions of their ID. All I can do is promise not to share the photo with anyone, ever.
Wait, so would you be keeping the ID on file? The only site I know that offered this sort of ID verification always discarded the files after the verification. It would be even illegal to keep them on file where I live (European Union) to protect the individual whose ID it is.
I don't anticipate keeping the IDs on file, no.
Kim: Okay, I’m glad. That would make the time window for anyone gaining access to the ID or the picture really short, if I understand it correctly.
Personally, I'd be in favor of this feature too. Not because I don't want to associate with the part of the community which isn't above the legal age, that's not the case. It gives a bit more security in knowing that if you join a community which advertises itself to be 18+ (as a player, and character ages to also follow/must meet this IC age requirement).
Some people simply aren't comfortable with not knowing, which is entirely understandable. Considering potential possibilities for catfishing in a specific RP community which is meant for adults. It's a legitimate concern for a lot of people, and a I see no issues with a volunteer option on age verification. Since it would be optional, and completely at the discretion of each individual, the site isn't forcing anyone to verify.
While yes, there would be some people that wouldn't want to RP with others which aren't verified, it doesn't change a thing. Not from my personal perspective. A player if going to stick to what makes them comfortable, regardless of whether RPR implements this age verification option or not. That's never going to change, some people have simply had unpleasant experiences which they dont want to relive. Or, simply, they don't want to get themselves in trouble because of a blatant disregard for age representation online.
Some people simply aren't comfortable with not knowing, which is entirely understandable. Considering potential possibilities for catfishing in a specific RP community which is meant for adults. It's a legitimate concern for a lot of people, and a I see no issues with a volunteer option on age verification. Since it would be optional, and completely at the discretion of each individual, the site isn't forcing anyone to verify.
While yes, there would be some people that wouldn't want to RP with others which aren't verified, it doesn't change a thing. Not from my personal perspective. A player if going to stick to what makes them comfortable, regardless of whether RPR implements this age verification option or not. That's never going to change, some people have simply had unpleasant experiences which they dont want to relive. Or, simply, they don't want to get themselves in trouble because of a blatant disregard for age representation online.
idk how wanted my opinion would be here just because i'm not an adult yet, and i basically posted the same thing on the original thread where this conversation took place, but here's my two scents:
as i said on the original thread and going off of what demilicious brought up, as a trans person, i wouldn't be okay with showing anything that has my birth name or dgab on it at all. it's just a personal comfort thing, really. i know it would only be shown to one person, but for me, it makes me uncomfortable just Knowing that people out there know me as that name. this is a personal dysphoria thing i deal with every day, because just the thought of anyone knowing me as the Wrong Name makes my skin crawl.
also, there's the issue of trans people who aren't open about being trans on the internet, and wouldn't want to out themselves just to verify their age for roleplaying. even if it's just one person, coming out is an extremely personal (and usually extremely difficult) thing for all of us
basically what i'm saying is that, when i turn 18 in a few months (if this becomes a feature), it would suck for me to lose the opportunity to participate in some roleplays just because i'm not comfortable showing any of my IDs to verify my age. i definitely understand the point of it but i feel like it's a bit unnecessary and would result in a bit of a divide with adults who can't officially verify their ages for whatever reason. i would 100% be for the idea if i wasn't afraid that it would just create a huge divide, or something.
as i said on the original thread and going off of what demilicious brought up, as a trans person, i wouldn't be okay with showing anything that has my birth name or dgab on it at all. it's just a personal comfort thing, really. i know it would only be shown to one person, but for me, it makes me uncomfortable just Knowing that people out there know me as that name. this is a personal dysphoria thing i deal with every day, because just the thought of anyone knowing me as the Wrong Name makes my skin crawl.
also, there's the issue of trans people who aren't open about being trans on the internet, and wouldn't want to out themselves just to verify their age for roleplaying. even if it's just one person, coming out is an extremely personal (and usually extremely difficult) thing for all of us
basically what i'm saying is that, when i turn 18 in a few months (if this becomes a feature), it would suck for me to lose the opportunity to participate in some roleplays just because i'm not comfortable showing any of my IDs to verify my age. i definitely understand the point of it but i feel like it's a bit unnecessary and would result in a bit of a divide with adults who can't officially verify their ages for whatever reason. i would 100% be for the idea if i wasn't afraid that it would just create a huge divide, or something.
First, I'd like to state that I only read Kim's original post, and none of the other posts.
I think this is a good idea, not only for those wanting to RP smut, but also for those who only want to RP with people above the age of 18.
I'd also like to offer my help with the lisences, as I've worked with ID of all kinds and from all over the world. I likely wouldn't be able to spot a fake ID through a picture, as it's much, much easier to do when you have it in your hand, but I do know what official ID documents (lisences, passports, national IDs and so on) look like from almost all of Europe, a good deal of Asian countries and America.
Perhaps it'd be a good idea to say that someone went through them once a month, and that there would be an "application date"-ish?
I think this is a good idea, not only for those wanting to RP smut, but also for those who only want to RP with people above the age of 18.
I'd also like to offer my help with the lisences, as I've worked with ID of all kinds and from all over the world. I likely wouldn't be able to spot a fake ID through a picture, as it's much, much easier to do when you have it in your hand, but I do know what official ID documents (lisences, passports, national IDs and so on) look like from almost all of Europe, a good deal of Asian countries and America.
Perhaps it'd be a good idea to say that someone went through them once a month, and that there would be an "application date"-ish?
Novalyyn wrote:
I have concerns about how the community would respond to a system that will result in some members basicly saying, "I won't play/interact/etc with you unless you pay the site to check if you really are an adult."
I don't personally think it would be much different than how people are already responding to the existing version of the AO areas on the site. We already have members who basically say "Unless you publicly show me your age or respond to my topic in LFRP-AO we're never even going to be talking much less RP". A paid version won't change people's attitudes on this, and since not every adult will have the money to verify, a person (who is 100% entitled to set a boundary for age verification only) following through with that will just end up shooting themselves in the foot because they'll be missing out on interacting with a majority of adults on the site.
That said, the situation my friend was in (lied to about his RP partner's age when she claimed to be 18, had signed up with an account stating she was 18, but was actually 16, and then potentially dealing with a charge of sexually misconduct with a child online) would have been prevented if this system had been in place. I know what already happens, and I personally give priority to preventing what already happens and can cost people's freedom and a lifetime of trauma, versus what the community might feel in response to a few individuals who severely restrict their pool of potential partners.
I also still don't see how this is any different from people who exclusively RP with characters who have pretty pictures on their profiles or who have custom Epic Templates. "I won't play with you unless you pay money to this site to make your profile aesthetically pleasing" already happens too, so why is that not an issue but this would be?
That's exactly the point I was trying to make, Sanne. Regardless of whether this Verification option is implemented? People are going to continue to appeal to their own personal preferences.
psoliver wrote:
idk how wanted my opinion would be here just because i'm not an adult yet, and i basically posted the same thing on the original thread where this conversation took place, but here's my two scents:
as i said on the original thread and going off of what demilicious brought up, as a trans person, i wouldn't be okay with showing anything that has my birth name or dgab on it at all. it's just a personal comfort thing, really. i know it would only be shown to one person, but for me, it makes me uncomfortable just Knowing that people out there know me as that name. this is a personal dysphoria thing i deal with every day, because just the thought of anyone knowing me as the Wrong Name makes my skin crawl.
also, there's the issue of trans people who aren't open about being trans on the internet, and wouldn't want to out themselves just to verify their age for roleplaying. even if it's just one person, coming out is an extremely personal (and usually extremely difficult) thing for all of us
basically what i'm saying is that, when i turn 18 in a few months (if this becomes a feature), it would suck for me to lose the opportunity to participate in some roleplays just because i'm not comfortable showing any of my IDs to verify my age. i definitely understand the point of it but i feel like it's a bit unnecessary and would result in a bit of a divide with adults who can't officially verify their ages for whatever reason. i would 100% be for the idea if i wasn't afraid that it would just create a huge divide, or something.
as i said on the original thread and going off of what demilicious brought up, as a trans person, i wouldn't be okay with showing anything that has my birth name or dgab on it at all. it's just a personal comfort thing, really. i know it would only be shown to one person, but for me, it makes me uncomfortable just Knowing that people out there know me as that name. this is a personal dysphoria thing i deal with every day, because just the thought of anyone knowing me as the Wrong Name makes my skin crawl.
also, there's the issue of trans people who aren't open about being trans on the internet, and wouldn't want to out themselves just to verify their age for roleplaying. even if it's just one person, coming out is an extremely personal (and usually extremely difficult) thing for all of us
basically what i'm saying is that, when i turn 18 in a few months (if this becomes a feature), it would suck for me to lose the opportunity to participate in some roleplays just because i'm not comfortable showing any of my IDs to verify my age. i definitely understand the point of it but i feel like it's a bit unnecessary and would result in a bit of a divide with adults who can't officially verify their ages for whatever reason. i would 100% be for the idea if i wasn't afraid that it would just create a huge divide, or something.
I have a lot of sympathy for the dysphoria trans people experience when it comes to using official IDs that aren't updated and still use their deadnames. That's one of the reasons why this would be 100% optional and you wouldn't be restricted from using any features on the site for not doing it. You can still show your age publicly to let people know you're 18(+), people will still RP with you, people will want to RP smut with you even if you lack the official badge. The badge wouldn't exist to make you less worthy of an RP partner. Again, people who filter exclusively on adults with badges would get such a small variety of people and characters to choose from that they basically don't get to RP anything with anyone, so this scenario is very unlikely to happen.
What the badge does is not bar you from interacting with people, it's one more level of protection people use to help prevent potentially going to jail and being marked with 'child molestor' on their records for the rest of their lives.
If someone chooses to pick partners based on such a narrow search query, chances are they already have pretty high standards as it is and you're not one of their potential partners to begin with.
Penholder wrote:
I'd also like to offer my help with the lisences, as I've worked with ID of all kinds and from all over the world. I likely wouldn't be able to spot a fake ID through a picture, as it's much, much easier to do when you have it in your hand, but I do know what official ID documents (lisences, passports, national IDs and so on) look like from almost all of Europe, a good deal of Asian countries and America.
That probably won't happen because Kim wouldn't be seeking someone from inside RPR to check IDs, although it's nice to see you offering your expertise!
See her reply here: https://www.rprepository.com/community/forumthread.php?t=50353&p=1#3971897
Sanne wrote:
Novalyyn wrote:
I have concerns about how the community would respond to a system that will result in some members basicly saying, "I won't play/interact/etc with you unless you pay the site to check if you really are an adult."
I don't personally think it would be much different than how people are already responding to the existing version of the AO areas on the site. We already have members who basically say "Unless you publicly show me your age or respond to my topic in LFRP-AO we're never even going to be talking much less RP". A paid version won't change people's attitudes on this, and since not every adult will have the money to verify, a person (who is 100% entitled to set a boundary for age verification only) following through with that will just end up shooting themselves in the foot because they'll be missing out on interacting with a majority of adults on the site.
That said, the situation my friend was in (lied to about his RP partner's age when she claimed to be 18, had signed up with an account stating she was 18, but was actually 16, and then potentially dealing with a charge of sexually misconduct with a child online) would have been prevented if this system had been in place. I know what already happens, and I personally give priority to preventing what already happens and can cost people's freedom and a lifetime of trauma, versus what the community might feel in response to a few individuals who severely restrict their pool of potential partners.
I also still don't see how this is any different from people who exclusively RP with characters who have pretty pictures on their profiles or who have custom Epic Templates. "I won't play with you unless you pay money to this site to make your profile aesthetically pleasing" already happens too, so why is that not an issue but this would be?
My worry isn't so much that those who require it will miss out, but rather that it'll upset everyone else that much more. I have no doubt there will be people who get upset about being excluded because they want to preserve their privacy - which would technically be even more at risk with the verification, even if it's actually totally safe - and can't or don't want to pay the fee. They will claim it's unfair.
I know that Kim and the mods will keep on top of it as best they can, but those who require verification will be made to feel bad about their decision by those who are bitter about it, even moreso than already happens.
And if not enough people get verified, then the system becomes next to useless for those who want it.
I'm not trying to be negative. I understand that this could help some feel more safe, and I know people work their butts off to keep this site friendly and all. This just seems like it would be more complicated than it's actually worth and I worry that it could even prove detrimental.
Having seen this pop up and having gone through and read the entirety of the conversation, I have to say that I am 100% on board with this, and will even go as far as to do funding for it for other users as I am able.
The idea of being able to see that someone is 18 and has had their ID verified is incredibly attractive. There are users that are 18 but don't display their age, and as a result I know that it is safer to treat them as if they aren't 18.
To me, as an adult in an area that is so heavily populated by minors, that level of security for myself would relieve a great deal of stress. People lie on the internet. That's a known fact. At least once a month it seems that the dangers of minors in AO forums has to be explained to someone in the OOC chat. There's not a single doubt in my mind that some of those users are just turning around and making new profiles that list them as 18+.
I don't have a problem RPing with anyone under 18, but there's a laundry list of subjects that I won't even broach in conversation unless they're of age, and I've even turned down RP because a underage player's character's background was heavily mature and I was uncomfortable RPing with them, even though it could have been PG.
It's just safer. That's the point. It's safer.
The idea of being able to see that someone is 18 and has had their ID verified is incredibly attractive. There are users that are 18 but don't display their age, and as a result I know that it is safer to treat them as if they aren't 18.
To me, as an adult in an area that is so heavily populated by minors, that level of security for myself would relieve a great deal of stress. People lie on the internet. That's a known fact. At least once a month it seems that the dangers of minors in AO forums has to be explained to someone in the OOC chat. There's not a single doubt in my mind that some of those users are just turning around and making new profiles that list them as 18+.
I don't have a problem RPing with anyone under 18, but there's a laundry list of subjects that I won't even broach in conversation unless they're of age, and I've even turned down RP because a underage player's character's background was heavily mature and I was uncomfortable RPing with them, even though it could have been PG.
It's just safer. That's the point. It's safer.
I might sound a bit toxic wording this, but...
Just my thoughts on it.
And I'm getting certain vibes from this ordeal.
Warning: Strong opinions ahead, proceed at own risk
If "we" are overextending this adult controversy so far, wouldn't it be better if people complaining about just moved out? There's a bit of irony in this, because 'minors' - like most mention as if they were not part of society - are just four or so clicks away from most of the indecent parts of the forum. And, even though I have no fore experience in the subject, in an administrative point of view, its like changing a rule based on a some of people's interest.
On the other hand, if there's such a huge wall being built, border to border, from minors and adults, wouldn't it be better to close the forum's door and make an obligatory proof of age for every registration?
Feel free to block me, by the way. :^)
On the other hand, if there's such a huge wall being built, border to border, from minors and adults, wouldn't it be better to close the forum's door and make an obligatory proof of age for every registration?
Feel free to block me, by the way. :^)
Just my thoughts on it.
And I'm getting certain vibes from this ordeal.
Churchtuary wrote:
I might sound a bit toxic wording this, but...
You may want to re-read the first post in this topic. No part of the site would be locked. I don't think there's any kind of "ordeal" occurring here, just a discussion about potential features.
No rule changes involved, Church, nor any wall. Just attempting to better accommodate some preferences in a way that will have no significant effect on how anyone else uses the site.
Novalyyn wrote:
This just seems like it would be more complicated than it's actually worth and I worry that it could even prove detrimental.
Regardless of whether this Age Verification option is implemented, I don't see where this particular opinion changes. It's already happening, and it will continue to happen.
JayBird brings up a lot of valid points in his own statement, and the main thing I'd like to point out from his post is this.
JayBird wrote:
It's just safer. That's the point. It's safer.
It is a way for the adults of the community, whom which to engage themselves in content which is exclusively for adults, without feeling at risk of reprimandation on consequence of the law.
As it would be 100% optional, each individual would still be handle the situation the same. Without the verification option, there is no guarantee, and it's understandable why some people aren't comfortable.
Personally, I will RP with those that I know aren't 18+. However, I will not RP adult content with those people, or even touch particular topics if I'm unsure of a player's age. Much like many people have pointed out, I don't want to mistake information and potentially ruin the rest of my life over something that should be an enjoyable hobby for everyone involved.
JayBird wrote:
Having seen this pop up and having gone through and read the entirety of the conversation, I have to say that I am 100% on board with this, and will even go as far as to do funding for it for other users as I am able.
Bold my emphasis - I would also be on board with helping fund other people if it came down to that for some of them.
Beyond this, I would have a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders. I love roleplaying, but I've been shutting myself out lately because I am unsure of how truthful people are. Currently, I am using the AOLF to find RP, but even then I have people who don't get back to me after they realize I am not interested in smut RP and it is very frustrating. I want to be able to find people to play with, but I also don't tend to play smut RP.
I'm not saying that everyone using the AOLF boards is looking for smut, but it sometimes feels like to me.
Cacophony wrote:
JayBird wrote:
Having seen this pop up and having gone through and read the entirety of the conversation, I have to say that I am 100% on board with this, and will even go as far as to do funding for it for other users as I am able.
Bold my emphasis - I would also be on board with helping fund other people if it came down to that for some of them.
Beyond this, I would have a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders. I love roleplaying, but I've been shutting myself out lately because I am unsure of how truthful people are. Currently, I am using the AOLF to find RP, but even then I have people who don't get back to me after they realize I am not interested in smut RP and it is very frustrating. I want to be able to find people to play with, but I also don't tend to play smut RP.
I'm not saying that everyone using the AOLF boards is looking for smut, but it sometimes feels like to me.
I would like to point out that I use the AO forum to find roleplay that has the possibility of mature content, but I also use it because some of my plots still imply themes I wouldn't feel comfortable roleplaying with a minor for my own personal reasons. Such as extreme violence, gore, etc.
I see both the pros and cons of this feature, I so far trust my current RP partners but even without this if I suspected someone lied to me about their age I would not further converse with them. However the signs of whether you're talking to an adult or not can be hard to find, And I know some people find it obvious but that isn't always the case. The way they write and their grammar could be that of what you'd expect from an adult.
It may be a bit excessive to have to pay $10 just to verify your age but I do have to admit, despite all the possible cons, this is still just a way to keep those who have concerns over this matter such as myself safe in some way.
I hope this made sense, I read majority of this conversation and pardon me if I mentioned something already stated. I just felt as someone with the concerns of being lied to about ones age I should out my own bit in here. I also apologize if I seem to have rambled, Heh, slight forum anxieties is all ^^'
Cacophony wrote:
JayBird wrote:
Having seen this pop up and having gone through and read the entirety of the conversation, I have to say that I am 100% on board with this, and will even go as far as to do funding for it for other users as I am able.
Bold my emphasis - I would also be on board with helping fund other people if it came down to that for some of them.
+1 here as well: I would also be up for helping out anyone who needs age verification, depending on my own finances.
I'm still partially iffy on it, but as Sanne and a few others have said, it doesn't really matter in the end because people have their own personal preferences, rules, and judgements regardless of whether it's implemented or not. Some people won't RP with others unless they post frequently on the AO forum, etc., etc.. If people start judging and excluding others because of a tiny badge, that's on them, but they won't be seeing a lot of RP depending on how this takes off. It also shows a lot about their own character too, I feel.
Truth be told, I'd buy it if became available, just so other people know I'm of age and can relax around me.
LightSide-Lucree wrote:
Cacophony wrote:
JayBird wrote:
Having seen this pop up and having gone through and read the entirety of the conversation, I have to say that I am 100% on board with this, and will even go as far as to do funding for it for other users as I am able.
Bold my emphasis - I would also be on board with helping fund other people if it came down to that for some of them.
+1 here as well: I would also be up for helping out anyone who needs age verification, depending on my own finances.
I'm still partially iffy on it, but as Sanne and a few others have said, it doesn't really matter in the end because people have their own personal preferences, rules, and judgements regardless of whether it's implemented or not. Some people won't RP with others unless they post frequently on the AO forum, etc., etc.. If people start judging and excluding others because of a tiny badge, that's on them, but they won't be seeing a lot of RP depending on how this takes off. It also shows a lot about their own character too, I feel.
Truth be told, I'd buy it if became available, just so other people know I'm of age and can relax around me.
Like Lucree says: I'd buy it just so people can relax around me.
Maybe, just a thought, make the badges able to be gifted to a person like the other store items such as Dragon Tooth. When I made my purchase of a Tooth last month, it asked me if it was for myself or a friend.
Now I know that would be tricky right there, as a badge could be given to someone lying about their age. But I think it would make it a bit easier. Say Lucree had the funds, and she nicely offered to buy me a badge. Then she could just click on the option of it being for a friend.
Again, it's just a suggestion.
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