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Forums » Suggestions & Development Discussion » Longer edit time?

I swear i've seen someone else mention this not long ago, but i can't find it at all, so now i'm gonna suggest it myself haha

I love that it's an option to edit your message for a bit after sending in pms, cause i sometimes make a typo or remember something to add.
But i was hoping it could in some way be extended to a bit more than just 15 minutes? i have had it happen that i or my rp partner notices something in the latest reply that needs editing, but we can't because it's been more that 15 minutes.

What i mean is my partner might send a reply, i notice something or ask about something in the reply, and they want to change it to perhaps make it more clear or because they didn't notice they wrote something odd sounding, but they can't since it's been more than the 15 minutes
Agreed. I have had a few typos myself, and sometimes it's more than just one letter being wrong. Sometimes I leave the entire word out LMAO

Plus, I get distracted easy and 15 minutes goes by quickly. XD
Mirabell wrote:
I swear i've seen someone else mention this not long ago, but i can't find it at all, so now i'm gonna suggest it myself haha

I love that it's an option to edit your message for a bit after sending in pms, cause i sometimes make a typo or remember something to add.
But i was hoping it could in some way be extended to a bit more than just 15 minutes? i have had it happen that i or my rp partner notices something in the latest reply that needs editing, but we can't because it's been more that 15 minutes.

What i mean is my partner might send a reply, i notice something or ask about something in the reply, and they want to change it to perhaps make it more clear or because they didn't notice they wrote something odd sounding, but they can't since it's been more than the 15 minutes

Completely agree with this. I think that PMs should have the same editing system that public forum posts do. I've been in situations where I've had to rewrite a whole post because I missed a crucial piece of lore about my partner's character, but I couldn't edit it because it was after 15 minutes had passed.
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Anakisuto wrote:
Completely agree with this. I think that PMs should have the same editing system that public forum posts do. I've been in situations where I've had to rewrite a whole post because I missed a crucial piece of lore about my partner's character, but I couldn't edit it because it was after 15 minutes had passed.

I know it's been said it can't be like the forums, but i thought perhaps upping it to some hours or till a new person replies, something like that could perhaps work, but not sure
Mirabell wrote:
Anakisuto wrote:
Completely agree with this. I think that PMs should have the same editing system that public forum posts do. I've been in situations where I've had to rewrite a whole post because I missed a crucial piece of lore about my partner's character, but I couldn't edit it because it was after 15 minutes had passed.
I also agree with this. As typo prone as I am, it would be nice to have it.

I know it's been said it can't be like the forums, but i thought perhaps upping it to some hours or till a new person replies, something like that could perhaps work, but not sure
This actually happened in our rp, haha!

But yeah, I'd have to agree with King on this one, it should be until the next person replies instead of 15 minutes.
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DigitalDevil wrote:
This actually happened in our rp, haha!

But yeah, I'd have to agree with King on this one, it should be until the next person replies instead of 15 minutes.

I wouldn't be surprised lmao there is quite a lot of replies it haha

I think that part was me being quoted gone wonky lol
Sanne Moderator

I can't make any comments on whether or not Kim is willing to extend the editing time frame, but one reason we have for the edit lock is to avoid people from being able to get away with breaking the rules in private, being abusive or otherwise participating in highly questionable behavior. With forums being public, rule breaking or abusive behavior is immediately noticeable and is more difficult to hide, but PMs are so exceptionally private that nobody but the recipients gets to look at them -- until they're reported to the mods or Kim has a reason to investigate problematic situations.

As far as I know, Kim chose 15 minutes because it's a reasonable time window during which the sender can re-read their message and make edits to it, but it's not long enough to allow someone to hide poor or abusive behavior consistently. Especially with the nature of PMs being that they're often not read immediately after being sent.

While it is possible to build in features that save edited records so that there's a paper trail of potential rule breaking in PMs (and I can't remember what Kim has said about that at this time, so I don't know what her reasons were/are/would be for implementing that or not), the lock after 15 minutes currently does make it easier to report and investigate potentially harmful situations. I can imagine opening that window to an hour, or several hours, ends up defeating the purpose of why this exists in the first place.

I'm mostly curious about why sending a new message, or taking more time to proofread a message before sending, aren't viable options for the issues mentioned here?
I agree with Sanne for all the reasons mentioned. Yes, I have wanted to edit something in a message after 15 minutes, usually when I read something I sent a day later. But 15 minutes is a reasonable time to be able to do edits. I have become a fan of the little 'eye' icon so I can preview my messages before sending them. Personally, I think care should be exercised by the one sending a DM. Proofread, and use your fifteen minutes.

An alternate way to be able to edit posts for 1x1 roleplays is to create a private top-secret group and invite only the people you want in. You can use the forum function in the group and the thread posts remain editable indefinitely.
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Sanne wrote:
I can't make any comments on whether or not Kim is willing to extend the editing time frame, but one reason we have for the edit lock is to avoid people from being able to get away with breaking the rules in private, being abusive or otherwise participating in highly questionable behavior. With forums being public, rule breaking or abusive behavior is immediately noticeable and is more difficult to hide, but PMs are so exceptionally private that nobody but the recipients gets to look at them -- until they're reported to the mods or Kim has a reason to investigate problematic situations.

As far as I know, Kim chose 15 minutes because it's a reasonable time window during which the sender can re-read their message and make edits to it, but it's not long enough to allow someone to hide poor or abusive behavior consistently. Especially with the nature of PMs being that they're often not read immediately after being sent.

While it is possible to build in features that save edited records so that there's a paper trail of potential rule breaking in PMs (and I can't remember what Kim has said about that at this time, so I don't know what her reasons were/are/would be for implementing that or not), the lock after 15 minutes currently does make it easier to report and investigate potentially harmful situations. I can imagine opening that window to an hour, or several hours, ends up defeating the purpose of why this exists in the first place.

I'm mostly curious about why sending a new message, or taking more time to proofread a message before sending, aren't viable options for the issues mentioned here?

I totally get those reasons! And i'm not gonna be mad at all if it doesn't change, but still thought i would try suggest it

A new message could be sent yes, but that can sometimes cause confusion.. especially with the more ooc chats, i have completely missed it when more than one message was sent, or have had my message missed if i sent more than one.. and not just a few times, it has happened a lot

I also do use the preview feature, and even more for my actual replies, i type them out in google docs first as i have unfortunately many times lost everything I wrote by writing directly in the reply box(though now text doesn't seem to disappear as easily? Still i don't wanna risk it)

I will add though, i don't know the details of how it all works in the background and how that stuff is used to avoid people being mean, or catch it. But i wanted to try suggest it, in case it could be possible in some way without ruining something else
What if there was a way to create a post slot that acts as a temporary editing space for your writing, only to be published once the writer confirms its completion? A draft mode.
I use notepad on my computer to draft posts for on-site rps, not the most glamorous but it gets the job done.
Perhaps a function could be designed similar to adding people in a pm chain where if everyone agrees, a post could be edited after 15 minutes? That should remove the potential for abuse, but also let people get what they want as long as they are willing to jump through a hoop.
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Katia wrote:
Perhaps a function could be designed similar to adding people in a pm chain where if everyone agrees, a post could be edited after 15 minutes? That should remove the potential for abuse, but also let people get what they want as long as they are willing to jump through a hoop.

Oh that's an interesting idea! Don't know if it's possible to make though, without being difficult
Kim Site Admin

Sanne wrote:
While it is possible to build in features that save edited records so that there's a paper trail of potential rule breaking in PMs (and I can't remember what Kim has said about that at this time, so I don't know what her reasons were/are/would be for implementing that or not)

This has existed since editing PMs became a thing. :)

My reasons for not wanting to make edits permanently available are about the categories that Forum Posts and Inbox conversations occupy in my head.

From the news post that announced that PM editing had been added:
Quote:
I've always mentally modeled PMs after emails or letters, where once you send it, it belongs to the person who received it. They can then keep it, refer back to it later, treasure it or discard it as they see fit. It becomes something privately sent, rather than publicly performed. This is one of the ways I distinguish forums and private messages.

That said, I also understand that if you're going to send something that might become a keepsake, it's disheartening when you realize moments after it's too late that there's a glaring mistake in the middle of that message! So I'm trying to balance the keepsake idea with people's thirst to have typo free messages, by allowing edits to private messages for 15 minutes after sending.

Safety and security is not a big consideration in this area, because edits are saved. So if someone were to send you a nasty PM and then edit it so you "couldn't report them," I can still go and look up what the original message was.

Here's some previous posts I have made explaining my reasoning for thinking of forum posts and inbox convos as different and needing different features:

https://www.rprepository.com/community/forums/topic/27267?page=0#post-2745562
https://www.rprepository.com/community/forums/topic/12597?page=0#post-1822380

Both those were made before editing PMs was allowed *at all* but it still speaks to why they're different.
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What is being replied to
Kim wrote:
Sanne wrote:
While it is possible to build in features that save edited records so that there's a paper trail of potential rule breaking in PMs (and I can't remember what Kim has said about that at this time, so I don't know what her reasons were/are/would be for implementing that or not)

This has existed since editing PMs became a thing. :)

My reasons for not wanting to make edits permanently available are about the categories that Forum Posts and Inbox conversations occupy in my head.

From the news post that announced that PM editing had been added:
Quote:
I've always mentally modeled PMs after emails or letters, where once you send it, it belongs to the person who received it. They can then keep it, refer back to it later, treasure it or discard it as they see fit. It becomes something privately sent, rather than publicly performed. This is one of the ways I distinguish forums and private messages.

That said, I also understand that if you're going to send something that might become a keepsake, it's disheartening when you realize moments after it's too late that there's a glaring mistake in the middle of that message! So I'm trying to balance the keepsake idea with people's thirst to have typo free messages, by allowing edits to private messages for 15 minutes after sending.

Safety and security is not a big consideration in this area, because edits are saved. So if someone were to send you a nasty PM and then edit it so you "couldn't report them," I can still go and look up what the original message was.

Here's some previous posts I have made explaining my reasoning for thinking of forum posts and inbox convos as different and needing different features:

https://www.rprepository.com/community/forums/topic/27267?page=0#post-2745562
https://www.rprepository.com/community/forums/topic/12597?page=0#post-1822380

Both those were made before editing PMs was allowed *at all* but it still speaks to why they're different.


I'm aware of those, and i totally get wanting to keep them different, i was only suggesting just extending it a bit, not to make them always able to be edited.
My main reason for it is if it needs an edit after the receiver has seen it, as it can look confusing to send another, or perhaps if it's because something needs to be removed for comfort, you can't get rid of it
Gonna add to this that as a slow reader who sometimes sends long posts, sometimes it takes me that long just to re-read something I've sent. I cannot imagine being the only person on a site where everyone writes essays for IC posts.

Maybe an hour, or 30 minutes, would be better? It might be a little awkward if the other person's already read the post though.
I'm relatively new to the site, and while I completely understand why a limited time frame for edits exists, I'd like to second Aardbei's point as a reason why 15 minutes actually isn't a universally sufficient amount of time for proofreading, and add a little bit more insight that maybe hasn't been considered.

I'm guilty of writing incredibly lengthy posts, such that I usually write them in a Google doc, then copy/paste to wherever it is I'm posting it. As someone with ADHD (and I know I'm not alone!) I am an absolutely ATROCIOUS proofreader for my own writing. Additionally, I'm an embarrassingly slow reader, and my brain processes information more slowly than neurotypical people. I think I've spent up to 45 minutes for a once-over for very long posts, and then when I finally copy/paste and send it on its way, I still end up finding typos or completely unfinished thoughts that require editing. Depending on how scatterbrained I am in that moment, it very well could take me more than 15 minutes to catch and fix those mistakes. My propensity for typos and unfinished sentences already makes me incredibly self-conscious as a writer, and I'm always afraid it will turn people away from wanting to write with me. I've found the 15 minute grace period really puts the pressure on me, but not in a very productive way. So far I'm lucky the people I've corresponded with have been very understanding, but it's still a huge point of insecurity for me.

Not really looking to incite changes, since the reasons for having that 15-minute window do make a lot of sense! And I can't honestly offer a solution. I more or less just wanted to provide another perspective and reason why this might be a problem for some people who write a lot, process information slowly, AND can't sufficiently self-edit in a span of 15 minutes. <3
Echo Topic Starter

SarahInsomnia wrote:
I'm relatively new to the site, and while I completely understand why a limited time frame for edits exists, I'd like to second Aardbei's point as a reason why 15 minutes actually isn't a universally sufficient amount of time for proofreading, and add a little bit more insight that maybe hasn't been considered.

I'm guilty of writing incredibly lengthy posts, such that I usually write them in a Google doc, then copy/paste to wherever it is I'm posting it. As someone with ADHD (and I know I'm not alone!) I am an absolutely ATROCIOUS proofreader for my own writing. Additionally, I'm an embarrassingly slow reader, and my brain processes information more slowly than neurotypical people. I think I've spent up to 45 minutes for a once-over for very long posts, and then when I finally copy/paste and send it on its way, I still end up finding typos or completely unfinished thoughts that require editing. Depending on how scatterbrained I am in that moment, it very well could take me more than 15 minutes to catch and fix those mistakes. My propensity for typos and unfinished sentences already makes me incredibly self-conscious as a writer, and I'm always afraid it will turn people away from wanting to write with me. I've found the 15 minute grace period really puts the pressure on me, but not in a very productive way. So far I'm lucky the people I've corresponded with have been very understanding, but it's still a huge point of insecurity for me.

Not really looking to incite changes, since the reasons for having that 15-minute window do make a lot of sense! And I can't honestly offer a solution. I more or less just wanted to provide another perspective and reason why this might be a problem for some people who write a lot, process information slowly, AND can't sufficiently self-edit in a span of 15 minutes. <3

I could not have explained this better myself, thank you!! I use google docs as well and i still make typos.. even when it usually corrects them.. heh
Kim Site Admin

I just extended it from 15 minutes to 3 hours. We'll see how we get on from there!

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