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did rpr do anything for pride month or was the logo just rainbow-colored for june? asking because i haven’t seen a topic or forum post about pride month but i might’ve just missed it :)
You're not the only one. I myself hadn't seen any Pride threads either. But oh well... *shrugs*
Sunflower Topic Starter

ChebaTheBee wrote:
You're not the only one. I myself hadn't seen any Pride threads either. But oh well... *shrugs*

i’m glad i’m not the only one!
Maybe next year!! A couple of us could do some fun pride themed soirees!
Rogue-Scribe

The rainbow logo was a beautiful recognition by RPR. Wouldn’t it be up to members to generate content? Was surprised some member didn’t generate a themed soirée RP. Guess nobody was into doing it.
Eh, maybe next year
MercyInReach did a thread to offer up free headshots for any LGBTQ+ characters off of the top of my head.

I'm pretty sure I saw other user generated threads.

I always assumed really getting into it was the job of us members.
Sunflower Topic Starter

Rogue-Scribe wrote:
The rainbow logo was a beautiful recognition by RPR. Wouldn’t it be up to members to generate content? Was surprised some member didn’t generate a themed soirée RP. Guess nobody was into doing it.
i probably should’ve specified it better but i didn’t mean specifically content and making a logo rainbow for an entire month isn’t recognition to lgbtq+ people in the same way that a post would be, acknowledging our history and fight for equal rights
“Ramika” wrote:
MercyInReach did a thread to offer up free headshots for any LGBTQ+ characters off of the top of my head.

I'm pretty sure I saw other user generated threads.

I always assumed really getting into it was the job of us members.
i recall seeing that but i checked the small talk forums pretty frequently and didn’t see any topics surrounding the topic. i think it’s up to us members if we want to make topics about it or not; my confusion is that rpr made their logo rainbow for pride month but didn’t even acknowledge pride month or do anything to voice the message of it
Pride on RPR is, indeed, pretty much as expressed by users. I think last year has been the only time there's been an official news post about it (but that wasn't the first time the logo was rainbow, either). I might be getting a bit presumptive, but I think there tends not to be much official stuff about it for multiple reasons:
  • With so many LGBTQ+ members, it might seem like just "preaching to the choir," with time better spent on action instead of words (like the pronoun updates the site's gotten on top of the previous expanded gender options).
  • If Kim's social circles are much like mine, she probably sees a lot of complaints about "rainbow capitalism" and might not be sure how to properly offer up something meaningful without it just reminding lots of folks too much of "rainbow capitalism." There are also those who are actually sick of being reminded constantly of how much further there still is to go, and RPR users tend to come here as a reprieve from reality.
  • This year in particular, Kim (who is the sole staff member for RPR) has had a lot going on, both in RPR events and developments, and in her personal life (and it's not my place to share further about that second part).
  • Pride has also, to a degree, voluntarily taken a back seat to racial issues these past couple years. Events are definitely still happening in as much as they can (with it still unsafe in so many places to have large gatherings), but we've got a lot of reasons to be giving extra focus to POCs, queer or otherwise (and I won't be elaborating on that, either).

I imagine that if you have any particular suggestions/requests for pride moving forward, that Kim would probably be happy to hear/read them, whether posted in Suggestions & Development or sent via the contact form with the "Suggestion" type selected. These things help Kim to keep better track of what folks would like to see. :)

As for user-generated content... I figure part of it still fits into the things I already mentioned, and part of it is just that it's been hard to even keep track of time for awhile now. We were a week or two into June before it finally hit me that, oh, hey, that's right, it's Pride month. With the reduction in physical events, that's also less reminders and less to do any sort of prep or planning for. Most of my city's Pride events were pre-recorded and posted online this year.

Plus, I think Pride is still primarily a US thing (people in the rest of the world, please correct me if I'm wrong!), and we've got a pretty spread-out userbase. Seems like a lot of Europeans in particular.
Sunflower Topic Starter

Zelphyr wrote:
Pride on RPR is, indeed, pretty much as expressed by users. I think last year has been the only time there's been an official news post about it (but that wasn't the first time the logo was rainbow, either). I might be getting a bit presumptive, but I think there tends not to be much official stuff about it for multiple reasons:
  • With so many LGBTQ+ members, it might seem like just "preaching to the choir," with time better spent on action instead of words (like the pronoun updates the site's gotten on top of the previous expanded gender options).
  • If Kim's social circles are much like mine, she probably sees a lot of complaints about "rainbow capitalism" and might not be sure how to properly offer up something meaningful without it just reminding lots of folks too much of "rainbow capitalism." There are also those who are actually sick of being reminded constantly of how much further there still is to go, and RPR users tend to come here as a reprieve from reality.
  • This year in particular, Kim (who is the sole staff member for RPR) has had a lot going on, both in RPR events and developments, and in her personal life (and it's not my place to share further about that second part).
  • Pride has also, to a degree, voluntarily taken a back seat to racial issues these past couple years. Events are definitely still happening in as much as they can (with it still unsafe in so many places to have large gatherings), but we've got a lot of reasons to be giving extra focus to POCs, queer or otherwise (and I won't be elaborating on that, either).

I imagine that if you have any particular suggestions/requests for pride moving forward, that Kim would probably be happy to hear/read them, whether posted in Suggestions & Development or sent via the contact form with the "Suggestion" type selected. These things help Kim to keep better track of what folks would like to see. :)

As for user-generated content... I figure part of it still fits into the things I already mentioned, and part of it is just that it's been hard to even keep track of time for awhile now. We were a week or two into June before it finally hit me that, oh, hey, that's right, it's Pride month. With the reduction in physical events, that's also less reminders and less to do any sort of prep or planning for. Most of my city's Pride events were pre-recorded and posted online this year.

Plus, I think Pride is still primarily a US thing (people in the rest of the world, please correct me if I'm wrong!), and we've got a pretty spread-out userbase. Seems like a lot of Europeans in particular.

i didn’t have anything related to the community in mind (as in specific posts) as to what should be said by rpr / kim but lgtbq+ people do not just stop existing because we go online; yes, roleplay is mainly to escape our real life in a way. it makes sense if the thought was that because there are so many lgbtq+ users and characters here, there’s not much to say. i just thought it seemed odd that rpr made the logo rainbow in june - as you mention, it does remind me of the companies that participate in rainbow capitalism

i’m from europe and we have europride here; pride hosted by a large city (usually the capital) as well as smaller pride gatherings in individual countries (:
Cass Moderator

Hi everyone,

I'm going to bring this back to the moderator team and Kim. I am deeply saddened to hear that some members thought that we didn't contribute enough to pride month. Many members of the moderator team are LGBTQ+ -- so I can assure you it's important to us and certainly not 'rainbow capitalism.' :)
Kim Site Admin

Hi gang!

The answer is no, the only thing that happened "officially" is that the logo changed color. I did try doing a post wishing people a happy pride last year, but it felt incorrect to me somehow and I couldn't figure out a better thing to do for this year so I went back to my default of letting the people for whom it's for take the lead on celebrating.

I'm deeply wary of co-opting or making money off other people's identity, so I've been very very careful about anything like rainbows or glitter or anything else that might be a stereotype of pride celebrations being for sale during June. I used to not even do the rainbow logo because I super did not want the LGBTQIA+ community to feel I might be trying to generate artificial goodwill off their struggles, but after receiving some PMs from community members who assured me they would feel seen rather than used, the logo has gone rainbow for the last few years.

For the most part, I try not to do official stuff for events like Pride Month or Black History Month or Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, Mental Health Awareness Month, or frankly, even more general holidays like Christmas or the Fourth of July. For some of these, this is partially because we're an international community and not all of these apply everywhere, but for the most part I feel extreme caution about potentially privileging one identity celebration over another. I'm not able to do them all justice, and many are marginalized, misunderstood and face extraordinary challenges I'm not super qualified to speak to or educate on. In a few cases, I've heard from members of those communities that they would rather NOT have to think about their identities and related struggles on the RPR and let them indulge in pure escapism.

Of course, there's no such thing as a universal accommodation, and on the other side it's easy for this to feel to someone like we're ignoring or erasing their identity, and that's a fair feeling to.

For me, it feels like the best way I can be an ally for our LGBTQIA+ members is by doing behind-the-scenes stuff to make the site welcoming year round; ie, the addition of pronouns + neo pronouns, our larger list of genders, strict moderation policies regarding slurs, making sure our explainer articles about different genders and how to be respectful of them are tweeted out multiple times a year, etc.

I'm sure every once in awhile I'll try new ways to acknowledge and promote identity celebrations during their designated days/weeks/months, as I force myself to try and get past this fear of messing it up, but so far, I haven't found something that feels both respectful and widely inclusive to me to make a routine of it.

I am of course open to hearing suggestions from members of said communities about what they'd like to see that would not feel hollow or tokeny to them. :)
RPR is it's community, if you want to do something for pride month than just do something for pride month.
Rogue-Scribe

Cass wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm going to bring this back to the moderator team and Kim. I am deeply saddened to hear that some members thought that we didn't contribute enough to pride month. Many members of the moderator team are LGBTQ+ -- so I can assure you it's important to us and certainly not 'rainbow capitalism.' :)

It seems like it’s gotten to a ‘damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ phase with this. Nobody ‘stops existing’ when they go online, no matter what heritage they are or how they identify themselves. Create the content you want to see (within site guidelines) ... threads, RPs, etc., which would be much more constructive coming from the various parties, and enjoy the recognition and awareness that is given by the site. You can tell this is quite important to the admin and staff, and Kim really says well what the fine line is that is being walked here. My two cents that nobody asked for...
Sunflower Topic Starter

Kim wrote:
Hi gang!

The answer is no, the only thing that happened "officially" is that the logo changed color. I did try doing a post wishing people a happy pride last year, but it felt incorrect to me somehow and I couldn't figure out a better thing to do for this year so I went back to my default of letting the people for whom it's for take the lead on celebrating.

I'm deeply wary of co-opting or making money off other people's identity, so I've been very very careful about anything like rainbows or glitter or anything else that might be a stereotype of pride celebrations being for sale during June. I used to not even do the rainbow logo because I super did not want the LGBTQIA+ community to feel I might be trying to generate artificial goodwill off their struggles, but after receiving some PMs from community members who assured me they would feel seen rather than used, the logo has gone rainbow for the last few years.

For the most part, I try not to do official stuff for events like Pride Month or Black History Month or Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, Mental Health Awareness Month, or frankly, even more general holidays like Christmas or the Fourth of July. For some of these, this is partially because we're an international community and not all of these apply everywhere, but for the most part I feel extreme caution about potentially privileging one identity celebration over another. I'm not able to do them all justice, and many are marginalized, misunderstood and face extraordinary challenges I'm not super qualified to speak to or educate on. In a few cases, I've heard from members of those communities that they would rather NOT have to think about their identities and related struggles on the RPR and let them indulge in pure escapism.

Of course, there's no such thing as a universal accommodation, and on the other side it's easy for this to feel to someone like we're ignoring or erasing their identity, and that's a fair feeling to.

For me, it feels like the best way I can be an ally for our LGBTQIA+ members is by doing behind-the-scenes stuff to make the site welcoming year round; ie, the addition of pronouns + neo pronouns, our larger list of genders, strict moderation policies regarding slurs, making sure our explainer articles about different genders and how to be respectful of them are tweeted out multiple times a year, etc.

I'm sure every once in awhile I'll try new ways to acknowledge and promote identity celebrations during their designated days/weeks/months, as I force myself to try and get past this fear of messing it up, but so far, I haven't found something that feels both respectful and widely inclusive to me to make a routine of it.

I am of course open to hearing suggestions from members of said communities about what they'd like to see that would not feel hollow or tokeny to them. :)

thank you for the clarification!

personally, the rainbow is a nice touch but the reasoning for my confusion and thought that it seemed a bit like profitting off of people's indeities if because to new memebers, seeing the logo be rainbow gives you a sense of community and you expect that you won't be harrassed for your sexuality here but then to see that there wasn't any recognition beyond that kind of clashes the two points against each other. yes, i agree that it'll be wildly confusing and hard work for one person to make posts and forum topics every time there's a month or day that celebrates a minority's identity, sexuality, race or something else that they might struggle with; we simply can't expect you to do that because that is asking too much

but as it was decided by the moderator team - or at least by you - to make the rainbow logo, i assume it's been on your mind and it's completely fair that you've been a bit on edge with how to appopriately approach the situation. i don't think there's an answer or solution that will make everybody happy, but it would've made more sense in my eyes to see a topic about "here are some tips about how you can accurately portray lgbtq+ people in roleplay as a cishet writer", "timeline of the history of pride", "these things should you be doing to combat homo- and transphobia whether it's pride month or not" or maybe just highlighting some lgbtq+ writers, members, characters or groups here on rpr. what was confusing to me was that you acknowledge the existence of pride month by making the logo rainbow but also not acknowledging the existence of lgbtq+ people because there wasn't even a post explaining why. i think it would've been fitting with a post saying something like "our logo is rainbow colored this month because june is pride month, here are some organizations you can donate to and here are some resources where you can educate yourself if you have any questions" because that post wouldn't have taken very long to make
Sanne Moderator

Sunflower wrote:
but as it was decided by the moderator team - or at least by you - to make the rainbow logo, i assume it's been on your mind and it's completely fair that you've been a bit on edge with how to appopriately approach the situation. i don't think there's an answer or solution that will make everybody happy, but it would've made more sense in my eyes to see a topic about "here are some tips about how you can accurately portray lgbtq+ people in roleplay as a cishet writer", "timeline of the history of pride", "these things should you be doing to combat homo- and transphobia whether it's pride month or not" or maybe just highlighting some lgbtq+ writers, members, characters or groups here on rpr. what was confusing to me was that you acknowledge the existence of pride month by making the logo rainbow but also not acknowledging the existence of lgbtq+ people because there wasn't even a post explaining why. i think it would've been fitting with a post saying something like "our logo is rainbow colored this month because june is pride month, here are some organizations you can donate to and here are some resources where you can educate yourself if you have any questions" because that post wouldn't have taken very long to make

Reading over Kim's response, it looks like the reason for not doing what you're suggesting is because it would be unfair.

My country doesn't celebrate Pride in June. There are also many Dutch organizations worth donating to, but I would be very surprised if you were considering those + many others spread out across all the continents to be included in this list! Which makes sense since June is US Pride Month.

November is diabetes awareness month, COPD awareness month and Indigenous Disability Awareness Month in Canada. They're all very important matters, but I think it's reasonable that not all of them can get the same amount of attention and highlighting that they each deserve.

I think fairness should be central in the decision making here, and the reality is: there are sometimes more than a dozen celebrations in a single month, and many of them are not international or even controversial in nature sometimes. There's no fair way to choose which one gets observed and which one doesn't without leaving out a month that is significant to any member. This month is Disability Pride Month and if Kim had done anything more than just changing a minor logo for June Pride Month, but chose not to do anything for this month, I would feel... really upset and excluded. Which I think is a valid feeling to have since the LGTBQIA+ community and Disability community experience very serious struggles all over the world and I would not be able to understand why only one of those two communities matter on the site.

Hurt feelings will inevitably happen if any particular celebration month that focuses on injustices or disadvantaged groups gets highlighted, but another does not.

I also want to gently point out that the research needed to put an article like that together is very labor intensive, and I know this would likely be an energy sink that would burn anyone out fast if we focused on highlighting all issues that deserve highlighting.

It's also worth noting we've never stopped anyone from putting out the knowledge and resources you mentioned. :) I myself have put together forum topics during Diabetes Awareness Month to educate people and provide resources, even when the site itself didn't recognize it. We, as a community, share vast amounts of knowledge and we don't have to rely on Kim to share it with each other; that's the inherent strength of a community that cares! Just because the site isn't officially celebrating June Pride Month, doesn't mean members don't have the option to put a 'lil something together themselves.

If there are any resources that come to mind for you, I absolutely encourage you to create a forum topic and share them, and I would encourage anyone who knows of more from different countries to share theirs as well.
This is all leading me to ponder if there might be some way to help collect what sorts of events folks would appreciate having recognition for and in what ways they would like that recognition expressed - sort of like the old template requests thread. This could allow those who would actually be represented by a thing to express if it's something they'd want mentioned in the first place (some things can feel pretty important to keep sort of private - not to hide it, but just because it might feel wrong to spread it beyond its relevant community, or the very existence of an event might have come from something problematic to those "represented" by it, such as the case with a lot of Autism-related things), and if so, how they would like it to be brought up.

I'm sort of thinking in terms of the standard being, say, a monthly post that lists what's going on in that month (since there are indeed a lot of things that overlap), briefly says who it's for (including if it's specifically a regional thing), and links to some more info about the event, preferably from a source created by those it's for. The post could also include direction on how to submit additional events for consideration, with the explanation that everything listed has, indeed, been added at member request in the way requested.

Pros (that I can think of right now)
  • Those subscribed to news posts would have the opportunity to learn a whole lot, and from resources created/approved by those who are part of the thing.
  • The sheer diversity of the community could be better seen/understood, and those the things are relevant to could feel more acknowledged/represented.
  • The brunt of the labor to gather all of this info would be dispersed through the community, and the official post would simply be a platform to raise voices, not to speak for others.
  • The setup should still allow those who want escapism to avoid heavy reminders of things since most info would be through links.

Cons (that I can think of right now)
  • A standard for what to include would have to be established first, and it probably won't be possible to establish a standard that works universally (for too many reasons). This standard is bound to end up feeling unfair to some.
  • Some months have so much going on that any such list could just create a sense of overwhelm, while other months might seem to have little or nothing going on.
  • Some communities have multiple events that may vary by region, apply to specific subgroups, etc. This can make it messier to include more of them but invalidating to include fewer; can make some communities at least appear to be over-represented; and potentially actually create some confusion (that may or may not be eased by just visiting the links).
  • Kim and the mods would still have to filter out potential abuse of the system, such of people trying to use it to establish an event that doesn't actually exist, or submissions for events that are actually harmful to others. These could be very difficult to sort from others that are simply little-known or who need positive attention because they are so often villainized in some way.
  • If only members of that community can submit things for it, someone might still feel bothered to see theirs isn't being recognized and might not have the time energy, or courage to submit it themselves, and/or generally feel that much more isolated (because that must mean there aren't any others here, assumably). Some things also just might never appear even if it's a good thing for us all to be aware of. But if people who aren't members of that community can submit, misrepresentation is more likely.
  • All of these various "communities" are not monoliths. Those in them actively disagree about many things - some of those things may have a "right" or at least "best" answer, but others won't. (Examples I often run into in non-binary gender communities include things like "Are non-binary people inherently transgender/part of the trans community?" "What are acceptable ways of referring to non-binary people or specific subgroups, either formally or casually?" "Is it problematic to acknowledge that sex and gender are different concepts?" and so on.)
  • Simply being listed off could, to some, feel like a more intentional dismissal than simply going unmentioned at all, especially if they seem themselves being held in equal regard to a community they have had negative experiences with. (Sucky people exist in all communities, and sometimes they are, unfortunately, a person's only experience with that community. Some communities also actually do have false-flag movements working against them. That an individual's experiences of a community may not be representative of that community does not mean that individual can't have been traumatized by the experience.)
Having been the token transperson in several rooms and having people loudly wish me happy pride, I actually appreciate the quiet acceptance. I live days where I would rather be anything other than trans and coming to see a safe place where I do not have to loudly proclaim how proud I am of my identity is a kindness to me. (I love who I am and I am not ashamed of being trans, however it is hard)

I do see the other side but I am actually warm and fuzzy over Kim's response. She doesn't speak for pride just like I do not speak for lesbians for example. I can speak for myself if I choose.

Living in a community where there are few openly LGBTI2Q+ people but a 99% Indegenous population June was Indegenous Pride Month for me (especially with the controversies over residential schools have been here in Canada) but that does not affect all the people on RPR.

There are too many diverse people to represent and we are lucky that LGBTI2Q+ people have a (semi) universal symbol that can be incorporated without having our identities compromised and monotized.
I love that this is a safe space where I don't really think needs the big loud pride celebration, but with that said, I think it would have been cool to see the rainbow roses again. I bought some last year and they are my favorite to hand out but I'm out now and was hoping to get more this year. It's totally possible I missed them, but in case they really didn't come back, I'd love to see them again next year if at all possible!

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